[NatureNS] blackoutspeakout

Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2012 12:56:50 -0300
From: V Redden <reddenville@nncweb.ca>
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 think otherwise.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I prefer not to talk politics on NatureNS
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I have two comments about Bill-C 38.

JS mentioned in paragraph 6 that the Act contains many references to 
'precautionary principles'.
To depend on these principles without further clarification of the 
principles is like signing a blank cheque.
The second issue is this Governments continued usage of any method to 
limit public input.

Virginia Redden
Port Howe NS



desolatechair@gmail.com wrote:
> Andy
>
> This is informative, thanks.
>
> However I find again here some pretty negative assumptions (without 
> citation unfortunately) that seem to be based on perceived fundamental 
> 'bad' intentions of the current government. I struggle to accept this 
> point of view, in particular when it is cast with the high dudgeon and 
> lack of substantiation that often accompanies it. It frankly sounds 
> unreasonable and not credible to me.
>
> Hence my attempt to get around the smoke and find the canonical form 
> in the actual bill itself - of which it is my understanding that the 
> omnibus bill has a long parliamentary tradition in Canada and the 
> British commonwealth, and may not in fact be the latest diabolical 
> ploy to turn Canada into a dictatorship - another argument I hear way 
> too often.
>
> For example if we take this statement from ecojustice.ca "The new Act 
> gives the Environment Minister and government officials broad 
> decision-making power" - I think this is supported based on my reading 
> of C 38. But I wonder - is this wrong? Perhaps the minister should 
> have those powers? After all he is directly elected (and of course 
> removable) by the people? And if things go wrong he will undoubtedly 
> and rightly bear the blame? Seems to me one might argue that given the 
> guy making the ultimate decision is directly answerable to the 
> electorate then this is grass roots democracy at it's finest. Straight up.
>
> I'm just saying that one could make that argument - and it seems to me 
> to be at least as credible as the "selling licenses to his corporate 
> friends" accusations.
>
> I've read the text of C 38 now several times and it contains repeated 
> references to 'precautionary principles' to protect the environment. 
> And the obligations imposed on the agency to practice scrutiny and 
> diligence in upholding those principles seem pretty rigourous (e.g 
> "Enactment of the Canadian Environmental Act 2012, 52:11) to my sore eyes.
>
> I have no reason to believe that the current minister is anything 
> other than a reasonable, honourable, intelligent person who is just as 
> committed to conservation and environmental protection as you or I. 
> Nor have I seen, to this point, any reason, in the legislation or 
> elsewhere, to think otherwise.
>
> I prefer not to talk politics on NatureNS but if we must than I am 
> trying very hard to do in an open and rational (scientific?) and 
> unemotional way.
>
> Thanks Again
>
> JS
>
>
>
> On , Andrew Horn <aghorn@dal.ca> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > The Purpose section of C-38 does sound perfectly reasonable. The 
> devil is in the details; a handy summary of 10 of the worst (not all 
> of which I find all that bad, but some of which are awful) is 
> here: http://www.ecojustice.ca/files/budget-bill-top-10-list/at_download/file
> >
> >
> > It takes a lot of patience to sort through the actual bill and find 
> all these. Which of course is part of the problem.
> >
> >
> > Hope that helps,
> > Andy Horn
> > Halifax
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jun 4, 2012, at 6:20 AM, Rick Whitman wrote:
> >
> > First, this and other items should never have been included in a 
> "Budget" Bill. Their placement there is a calculated slap in the face 
> to Canadian parliamentary tradition. It is a statement that the 
> Opposition has no useful role in government.
> >
> >
> > Second, the Harper Government has made it perfectly clear that they 
> plan to restrict and reduce the environmental impact process, reduce 
> environmental research, reduce fisheries research, reduce climate 
> change research, reduce Arctic climate monitoring, downsize 
> Environment Canada, downsize Parks Canada within EC, downsize 
> Fisheries & Oceans Canada, eliminate our commitments under Kyoto, 
> increase the development of the oilsands, challenge the involvement of 
> charitable environmental groups in environmental issues, and so forth.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > All of this has been public. One would have to make a conscious 
> choice in order to believe that huge changes have not occurred and 
> will not continue to occur, most likely at a faster pace.
> >
> >
> >
> > Rick Whitman
> >
> > On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 4:19 PM, james simpson 
> desolatechair@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Perhaps you would cite the relevant sections in C 38 that are so 
> contentious?  I've read through most of the bill as it relates to 
> environmental issues that I can find and it all seems pretty 
> reasonable and prudent to me.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
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<font face="Candara">I have two comments about Bill-C 38. <br>
<br>
JS mentioned in paragraph 6 that the Act contains many references to '</font>precautionary
principles'. <br>
To depend on these principles without further clarification of the
principles is like signing a blank cheque. <br>
The second issue is this Governments continued usage of any method to
limit public input. <br>
<br>
Virginia Redden <br>
Port Howe NS<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
desolatechair@gmail.com wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:bcaec51b18fb57b4bb04c1a605a4@google.com"
 type="cite">Andy<br>
  <br>
This is informative, th