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Hi Again Dave P & All, Oct 31, 2012
The elephant parts being briefly described by Gary and Nick, past and
future of NS forests, are just two snapshots of a much larger landscape. So
I don't see either submission as being part of an argument.
Gary looks back and all but turns the page on a closed chapter of NS
forestry; pulp. Nick looks ahead through, in my view, rose tinted glasses
but back long enough to include an almost vindictive attack on the
pulp/forestry industry for practices that were necessary (but not
sufficient) for economic survival.
MICRO RANT:
Our one species of Oak does well here but is threatened by a yellow
caterpillar and southern Oaks would be equally threatened. if they had
similar soil preferences This caterpillar has tracks like a tank and is used
to remove stumps to enable extraction of gravel. And gravel extraction,
largely to widen wide highways, plays havoc with stream flow stability and
survival of plants like Floerkea proserpinacoides and Equisetum hymale.
END OF MICRO RANT:
I have never paid much attention to concepts such as Nichols' White
Pine, Hemlock, Northern Hardwoods Association; now apparently called Acadian
Forest. These represent the stable successional stage in landscape that is
free of soil limitations, site limitations (such as exposure to wind) and
disturbance. I am more inclined to take note of what I see and mentally file
it away without labels as part of the total. This provides room for such
trees as Elm and Ash (why Ash did not make the cut as a component of
old-growth forest beats me).
If Mossler et al. (2003) correctly conclude that "... as much as 50% of
Maritime forest landscape..." was climax then, by logic, 50% or more was
something else.
But in N.S., based on personal observation, that 'something else' is way
more than 50% provided forest landscape includes everything except
waterways, wetland & farmland.
To cite a few examples-- Much of the Cape Breton Highlands was
predominantly even-aged Fir, likely established by Spruce Budworm eruptions,
long before a network of roads opened the area to forestry. There are
extensive areas of sand barrens in the Valley and patches elsewhere e.g.
Shelburne Co. & Cumberland Co. that can support only scrub and spaced pine.
And in addition to huge areas of fire barrens there are also huge areas with
very shallow bedrock (there is a graphic example of this effect on the 101
west of exit 3; the highway cuts across a series of ridges and the tops of
trees in the valleys are almost as high as the tops of stunted trees on the
ridge tops).
And in conclusion I wish to note that Foresters will have tended to
choose that vocation because they like trees, not because they like making a
god- awful mess of woodland. I remember one conversation with the Chief
Forester (or some such title and I don't recall his name) at Stora some
decades ago. Stora had begun to look at hardwood and I asked him if the
exceptional stand of very large hardwood east of the Ross was on the block.
He explained that he had told Management that he would walk if they did not
exclude it. Both he and Stora are long gone so that area may have been cut.
But if so then that may be only a temporary loss. The soil is right. It is
not likely be become housing or an 80 acre shopping center. So by about 2250
it will be a good as new-- if the climate is right.
Yt, Dave Webster, Kentville
Yt, Dave Webster, Kentville
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Patriquin" <patriqui@DAL.CA>
To: <naturens@chebucto.ns.ca>; "David & Alison Webster" <dwebster@glinx.com>
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 5:28 PM
Subject: Forest Persectives continued
> In response to David Websters question: "Just to clarify one point, do
> you then agree with Nick that climate change will be of net benefit to
> our forest ecosystem (or at least not detrimental)?"
>
> I don't read into Nick comments an argument that climatic change will be
> of "net benefit"or "not detrimental". Rather, by taking into account the
> mosaic nature of our forests and its causes (a major one being climatic
> change in the past), we can envisage and, I suppose, might facilitate
> some positive or ameliorative outcomes in the future, e.g., by
> introducing species that would eventually get here anyway. While our
> forests types are diverse as Nick outlined, they are not species diverse
> (an example at the genus level: we have one species of oak versus close
> to a dozen not far to the south) which limits forests'
> resistance/resilience to a variety of stressors. If warmer temperatures
> would extend the potential range of species to the south of us that are
> not currently here, why not introduce them to accelerate their natural
> migration into this area? There is a pretty large body of work by
> government, academic and industry professionals looking at this sort of
> thing so it is hardly just "wishful dreaming"!
>
> Speaking very much as a non-professional in forestry, where I question
> Gary Saunders perspectives or see some inconsistency in his arguments is
> in regard to the scale of natural disturbances. I think the evidence is
> pretty good that the scale of natural disturbances in the Acadian forest
> is generally much smaller than that in fire disturbed boreal forest
> systems (and even foresters' concepts in that area have moderated) and,
> I infer, much smaller than in most NS clearcuts.
>
> Saunders: "The truth is Nova Scotia had plenty of even-aged woodland
> (i.e., most trees of the same age) long before it had forest managers or
> a forest industry. Contrary to popular urban myth, cathedral groves were
> never that common on our windy peninsula."
>
> Contrast that perspective with that of Mossler et al. 2003: Old-growth
> forests of the Acadian Forest Region Environmental Reviews, 2003, 11(S1):
> S47-S77, 10.1139/a03-015
> http://cfs.nrcan.gc.ca/publications?id=22859
> From the abstract:
> "Based on expected patterns of ecological succession, disturbance
> dynamics, and stand development following catastrophic natural
> disturbance intervals of about 1000 years, and from what the geological
> record tells us about forest cover before European settlement, we can
> project that as much as 50% of Maritime forest landscape may have been
> dominated by late-successional old-growth forest types over the 4000-5000
> years before European settlement."
>
> It is encouraging to me that in spite of his arguments that NS "had
> plenty of even-aged woodland long before it had forest managers or a
> forest industry", as a professional forester Saunders still expresses
> disdain for large scale clearcuts and a preference for small clearcuts
> ("Small clearcuts I can live with. They somewhat copy nature (though
> nature takes nothing away). They create usable wildlife habitat and
> promote natural regeneration.") That viewpoint may be more compatible
> with the "urban myths" about forestry than he might want to admit!
>
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> Quoting David & Alison Webster <dwebster@glinx.com>:
>
>> Hi Dave P & All, Oct 26, 2012
>> Just to clarify one point, do you then agree with Nick that climate
>> change will be of net benefit to our forest ecosystem (or at least not
>> detrimental)?
>>
>> Certainly it was not my intent to defend even aged management but
>> simply to observe that weather extremes will play havoc with forest
>> management plans (which would include even aged management plans) and
>> the forest cover of affected areas will tend to be relatively even aged.
>>
>> Turning to the quite different subject of even aged stands one may
>> break it down readily into three aspects: all IMHO. One, as Gary noted,
>> natural forces here will sometimes tend to generate them; budworm, fire,
>> wind, [drought on shallow soils]. Depending upon soil and topography
>> these stands may be quite large; e.g. fir of Cape Breton Highlands. Two,
>> also as Gary noted, these natural and man made even aged stands
>> (generated by abandonment of farm lands and by silviculture) were
>> attractive for pulp purposes. Three, such stands were necessary but not
>> now sufficient for a viable pulp industry in NS.
>>
>> We have a habit of dishing out wads of tax money to attract or hold
>> pulp companies. It is just possible, along the model of Swiss 'farmers',
>> that even less money might fund a group of people who were willing to
>> personally manage select areas of woodland and harvest them selectively
>> using horses or oxen.
>>
>> Yours truly, Dave Webster, Kentville
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Patriquin" <patriqui@Dal.Ca>
>> To: <naturens@chebucto.ns.ca>; "David & Alison Webster"
>> <dwebster@glinx.com>
>> Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 10:59 AM
>> Subject: Re: [NatureNS] Forest Perspectives...scale of disturbance
>>
>>
>>> ...It is certainly well known that catastrophic events tend to
>>> structure communities. I don't, however, follow the logic that
>>> justifes a lot of even aged management on that basis, rather it argues
>>> for increased diversity, multi-aged/ management...
>>>
>>> to which I should have added:
>>>
>>> at least in the context of gap driven dynamics characteristic of the
>>> Acadian forest (versus fire driven dynamics of the boreal forest).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Quoting David & Alison Webster <dwebster@glinx.com>:
>>>
>>>> Hi Dave P. & All, Oct 25, 2012
>>>> I read both of these, and by way of disclaimer don't know either
>>>> Gary or Nick, but thought that Gary's article was soundly based and
>>>> Nick's seemed out of touch with reality.
>>>>
>>>> According to Nick e.g., if we just manage our Acadian forests
>>>> properly then even climate change will be a good thing; Magnolias,
>>>> Shagbark Hickory, Tulip Poplar, an amazement of understory
>>>> wildflowers--- wow, who would have known ?
>>>>
>>>> Sadly there is more to climate change than warmer temperatures and
>>>> the dangerous element to forest trees in this area will likely be
>>>> extreme variation of weather.
>>>>
>>>> Even one seriously adverse year in 100 can make a mess of good
>>>> management and 2012 was not great in my North Alton woodlot, to take
>>>> one example that I happen to know well. A large number of the few
>>>> spruce that did not die following extreme drought near the turn of
>>>> the century, or blow over in the wind of Dec 2010 looked very
>>>> stressed during the unusually prolonged drought this summer and a
>>>> fair proportion dropped all or nearly all of their needles. Based of
>>>> observation of similar circumstances elsewhere I expect thickets of
>>>> even aged trash trees (Fir & Poplar) will fill the clearings.
>>>>
>>>> When there is serious windfall even salvage is an option only if you
>>>> are an industrial scale operator. Following the windthrow of Dec 2010
>>>> I took a rough survey of damage and decided to try horse logging, the
>>>> trees being scattered, and sawing with a portable mill at 4-5 brows
>>>> by hiring the work and offering a split of the proceeds. The owner of
>>>> a portable mill kindly advised me to proceed only if I had a use for
>>>> the lumber and went on to explain that he had many trees over in 500
>>>> acres and had decided to let it rot in the woods; the lumber can be
>>>> sold only if certified and certification is not practical for small
>>>> lots.
>>>>
>>>> And the industrial scale outlook for pulp is bleak. A study of pulp
>>>> production costs worldwide some 15-20 years ago (sorry no reference)
>>>> found that Atlantic Canada had by far the highest costs worldwide for
>>>> pulp delivered to the mill site. And diversion of sawmill waste to
>>>> pulp mills helped to keep sawmills afloat but, given the shrinking
>>>> demand for paper, this could unravel within a decade.
>>>>
>>>> So there are serious problems ahead for forests, forestry
>>>> industries and the rural economy and clear-headed, fact-based
>>>> thinking is called for as opposed to wishful dreaming.
>>>>
>>>> Yt, Dave Webster, Kentville
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Patriquin" <patriqui@dal.ca>
>>>> To: <naturens@chebucto.ns.ca>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 9:49 AM
>>>> Subject: [NatureNS] Forest Perspectives
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I hope everyone reads Nick Hill's perspective of our forests, so
>>>>> wonderfully expressed and refreshing after the dismal, rural vs
>>>>> urban, Saunders Op-Ed
>>>>>
>>>>> Nick: Take a walk into the future in the Acadian forest
>>>>> http://thech.ca/RXLoLA
>>>>>
>>>>> Saunders
>>>>> http://thechronicleherald.ca/opinion/151384-taking-a-walk-in-the-woods-and-through-nova-scotia-s-past
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----
>>>>> No virus found in this message.
>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>> Version: 2013.0.2741 / Virus Database: 2614/5333 - Release Date:
>>>>> 10/15/12
>>>>> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> David Patriquin
>>> 6165 Murray Place
>>> Halifax, N.S.
>>> Canada B3H 1R9
>>> e-mail: patriqui@dal.ca
>>> Phone: 902-4235716
>>>
>>> Professor of Biology (retired)
>>> Dalhousie University http://www.dal.ca
>>>
>>> Halifax Field Naturalists http://halifaxfieldnaturalists.ca
>>> Nova Scotia Wild Flora Society http://nswildflora.ca
>>> Young Naturalists Club of Nova Scotia http://ync.nature1st.net/
>>> Woodens River Watershed Environmental Organization http://wrweo.ca
>>> Control of Chinch Bug without Pesticides http://versicolor.ca/lawns
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> No virus found in this message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 2013.0.2741 / Virus Database: 2614/5333 - Release Date:
>>> 10/15/12
>>> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> David Patriquin
> 6165 Murray Place
> Halifax, N.S.
> Canada B3H 1R9
> e-mail: patriqui@dal.ca
> Phone: 902-4235716
>
> Professor of Biology (retired)
> Dalhousie University http://www.dal.ca
>
> Halifax Field Naturalists http://halifaxfieldnaturalists.ca
> Nova Scotia Wild Flora Society http://nswildflora.ca
> Young Naturalists Club of Nova Scotia http://ync.nature1st.net/
> Woodens River Watershed Environmental Organization http://wrweo.ca
> Control of Chinch Bug without Pesticides http://versicolor.ca/lawns
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2013.0.2742 / Virus Database: 2617/5861 - Release Date: 10/29/12
>
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