[NatureNS] Seed Cropping Strategy in Trees

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Bishops Mills Natural History Centre - http://pinic
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A very interesting question Rick.=A0=0AA book would more fully cover the su=
bject than a NSNature post but=0AI've no intention to write a book - too ma=
ny out there now by=0Afolks who didn't know what they were writing about - =
LOL=0AAnyway I grow a number of Rhododendrons and have learned much=0Aabout=
 their life cycle from them. The same life cycle applies to all woody plant=
s=0Awith of course variations between species and between plants of the sam=
e species.=0AAs a rule plants that adapt to the north have a determinate me=
thod of growth=0Athose that grow farther south have an indeterminate =A0cyc=
le of growth.=0AWhat that means is determinate plants grow a set amount eac=
h year, stop growing=0Aand as we say "Harden up". Indeterminate plants - ma=
gnolias for example keep=0Agrowing as long as conditions permit.=0APart of =
the growth cycle is the production of a growing point for the next cycle of=
 growth.=0AThe growing point will have a main =A0bud for leader and a numbe=
r of side buds for the branch leaders.=0AA semaphore at some point directs =
the main bud to be either a flower bud or a vegetative bud.=0ASome Rhodie v=
arities will even have the side buds develop into flower buds.=A0=0AGreat E=
astern is an example which blooms so heavily it will sometimes kill itself.=
=0AThe semaphore is probably the level of sugars in the growing point.=0ATh=
is is easily seen in Rhodies because the flower buds swell and are easily i=
dentified=0Aas the summer progress so we can observe the flower buds are pr=
oduced in late June or July.=A0=0ANot so easy to see on spruce trees.=0APla=
nt growers in Japan have long studied this aspect of growth and have found =
if the vegetative growth=0Ais restricted the plant will produce more sugar =
- hence more flowers. They have developed techniques=0Ato accomplish this. =
They even found a beer brewed in some fashion would accomplish=0Athe task i=
f sprayed on the plants just as they started their annual growth spurt. Nee=
dless to=0Asay chemists isolated the active substance and made it in a lab =
and is now used in greenhouses.=0AIf you go to a plant store in May you wil=
l see red rhodies just covered with buds - no accident!=0AAnyway this could=
 get too long and my Bluejay wants peanuts for breakfast!=0AHave a nice fal=
l=0APaul=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Rick Whitman <de=
ndroica.caerulescens@gmail.com>=0ATo: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca =0ASent: Satu=
rday, November 10, 2012 3:31:43 PM=0ASubject: [NatureNS] Seed Cropping Stra=
tegy in Trees=0A =0ASomeone here knows more than I do. I think your focus i=
s too much on=0Athe negatives, to start with. I believe most tree seed crop=
s, both=0Ahardwood & softwood, are strongly cyclical over large areas. The=
=0Acycles may be pushed, or damped, from time to time by extreme good /=0Ab=
ad growing seasons, but I believe they will carry on regardless. As=0Ayou w=
ill know from your apple background, a very large crop one year=0Awill almo=
st always be followed by a small crop the next. The trees=0Asimply don't ha=
ve the resources to produce large crops every year.=0A=0AA fruit grower mod=
ulates crop load by hand thinners or chemical=0Athinners. No such thing exi=
sts in the wild and it's not obvious that=0Athe trees would benefit from su=
ch. We think too much about how nuts=0Aare spread around by birds and squir=
rels, to the trees' benefit. We=0Aneed to remember that this is not the cas=
e at all for most or all=0Asoftwoods & many hardwoods. I'm sure there are m=
inor exceptions=0A(carried seeds being lost) but overall conifers, maples, =
ash, birch=0Aetc. ALL distribute their seeds by the wind. Seed eating birds=
 are=0APREDATORS and nothing more.=0A=0ATherefore, it makes perfect evoluti=
onary sense for widespread=0Apopulations of trees to synchronize their seed=
 crops & overwhelm these=0Apredators with abundance, in a highly cyclic fas=
hion. The trees have=0Ano "interest" in feeding these birds. The trees that=
 are out of sync=0Awill be heavily predated & will not reproduce.=0A=0ANow,=
 someone can give the correct story.=0A=0ARick Whitman=0A=0AOn Sat, Nov 10,=
 2012 at 10:07 AM, David & Alison Webster=0A<dwebster@glinx.com> wrote:=0A>=
 Hi Rick & All,=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Nov 10, 2012=0A>=A0 =
=A0 Is the distribution of this poor seed crop in 2012 associated with=0A> =
distribution of dry weather this year (poor set or poor development) or wit=
h=0A> adverse conditions in 2011 (fewer cones/flower buds) ?=0A> Yt, Dave W=
ebster, Kentville=0A> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Whitman"=0A>=
 <dendroica.caerulescens@gmail.com>=0A> To: "naturens" <naturens@chebucto.n=
s.ca>=0A> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2012 1:34 PM=0A> Subject: [NatureNS=
] Winter Finch Forecast, Other Northern Birds=0A>=0A>=0A>> I'm pretty sure =
I didn't post Ron Pittaway's forecast for this winter=0A>> before. He predi=
cted a big move out of the eastern North woods, but=0A>> they will only sta=
y here in numbers if they like the conditions. I do=0A>> have my doubts abo=
ut our coniferous cone crop & his article implies=0A>> the same:=0A>>=0A>> =
"The theme this winter is that each finch species will use a different=0A>>=
 strategy to deal with the widespread tree seed crop failure in the=0A>> No=
rtheast. It will be a quiet winter in the eastern North Woods. See=0A>> ind=
ividual species forecasts for details. Both coniferous and hardwood=0A>> tr=
ee seed crops are generally poor from northeastern Ontario extending=0A>> e=
astward across Quebec to Newfoundland south through the Maritime=0A>> Provi=
nces, New York and New England States. Within the Northeast there=0A>> are =
pockets of good crops. Cone crops are much better in the Hudson=0A>> Bay Lo=
wlands and northwestern Ontario west to Alberta, Northwest=0A>> Territories=
 and Yukon. Three irruptive non-finch passerines whose=0A>> movements are l=
inked to finches are also discussed."=0A>>=0A>> His article is here:=0A>>=
=0A>> http://www.jeaniron.ca/2012/finchforecast2012.htm=0A>>=0A>> A number =
of you have been seeing Evening Grosbeaks & since Nov. 4 Ken=0A>> McKenna &=
 Dominic Cormier have reported Pine Grosbeaks on eBird. I=0A>> also had 3 P=
ine Grosbeaks in my yard at White Rock yesterday. I don't=0A>> see any eBir=
d reports of Common Redpolls in NS yet. Today I had 46 at=0A>> Horton Landi=
ng feeding in birches. So I've already seen 2 winter=0A>> finches that in s=
ome years I don't see all winter. It must be a winter=0A>> finch year.=0A>>=
=0A>> On a somewhat related note, I saw all of the following on the Grand=
=0A>> Pre dykelands today: Horned Lark, American Pipit, Lapland Longspur &=
=0A>> Snow Bunting. These have all been "around" but this speaks of winter=
=0A>> to me.=0A>>=0A>> Rick Whitman
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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ti=
mes new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>A very int=
eresting question Rick.&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0)=
; font-size: 16px; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif=
; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>A book would mo=
re fully cover the subject than a NSNature post but</span></div><div style=
=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: 'times new roman', '=
new york', times, serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;=
"><span>I've no intention to write a book - too many out there now by</span=
></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: 'ti=
mes new roman', 'new york', times, serif; background-color: transparent; fo=
nt-style: normal;"><span>folks who didn't know what they were writing about=
 - LOL</span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px;
 font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; background-color=
: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>Anyway I grow a number of Rhodode=
ndrons and have learned much</span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);=
 font-size: 16px; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif;=
 background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>about their life=
 cycle from them. The same life cycle applies to all woody plants</span></d=
iv><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: 'times =
new roman', 'new york', times, serif; background-color: transparent; font-s=
tyle: normal;"><span>with of course variations between species and between =
plants of the same species.</span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-size: 16px; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; =
background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;">As a rule plants that a=
dapt to the north have a determinate method of growth</div><div
 style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: 'times new rom=
an', 'new york', times, serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: n=
ormal;">those that grow farther south have an indeterminate &nbsp;cycle of =
growth.</div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-famil=
y: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; background-color: transpare=
nt; font-style: normal;">What that means is determinate plants grow a set a=
mount each year, stop growing</div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-=
size: 16px; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; backg=
round-color: transparent; font-style: normal;">and as we say "Harden up". I=
ndeterminate plants - magnolias for example keep</div><div style=3D"color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', =
times, serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;">growing a=
s long as conditions permit.</div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
 font-size: 16px; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif;=
 background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;">Part of the growth cyc=
le is the production of a growing point for the next cycle of growth.</div>=
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: 'times new=
 roman', 'new york', times, serif; background-color: transparent; font-styl=
e: normal;">The growing point will have a main &nbsp;bud for leader and a n=
umber of side buds for the branch leaders.</div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0,=
 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times,=
 serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;">A semaphore at =
some point directs the main bud to be either a flower bud or a vegetative b=
ud.</div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: '=
times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; background-color: transparent; =
font-style: normal;">Some Rhodie varities will even have the side buds
 develop into flower buds.&nbsp;</div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); fo=
nt-size: 16px; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; ba=
ckground-color: transparent; font-style: normal;">Great Eastern is an examp=
le which blooms so heavily it will sometimes kill itself.</div><div style=
=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: 'times new roman', '=
new york', times, serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;=
">The semaphore is probably the level of sugars in the growing point.</div>=
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: 'times new=
 roman', 'new york', times, serif; background-color: transparent; font-styl=
e: normal;">This is easily seen in Rhodies because the flower buds swell an=
d are easily identified</div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: =
16px; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; background-=
color: transparent; font-style: normal;">as the summer progress so we can
 observe the flower buds are produced in late June or July.&nbsp;</div><div=
 style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: 'times new rom=
an', 'new york', times, serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: n=
ormal;">Not so easy to see on spruce trees.</div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0=
, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times=
, serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;">Plant growers =
in Japan have long studied this aspect of growth and have found if the vege=
tative growth</div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font=
-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; background-color: tra=
nsparent; font-style: normal;">is restricted the plant will produce more su=
gar - hence more flowers. They have developed techniques</div><div style=3D=
"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new=
 york', times, serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;">t=
o
 accomplish this. They even found a beer brewed in some fashion would accom=
plish</div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family:=
 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; background-color: transparent=
; font-style: normal;">the task if sprayed on the plants just as they start=
ed their annual growth spurt. Needless to</div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, =
serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;">say chemists iso=
lated the active substance and made it in a lab and is now used in greenhou=
ses.</div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: =
'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; background-color: transparent;=
 font-style: normal;">If you go to a plant store in May you will see red rh=
odies just covered with buds - no accident!</div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0=
, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times=
,
 serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;">Anyway this cou=
ld get too long and my Bluejay wants peanuts for breakfast!</div><div style=
=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: 'times new roman', '=
new york', times, serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;=
">Have a nice fall</div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px;=
 font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; background-color=
: transparent; font-style: normal;">Paul</div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0=
, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, s=
erif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br></div>  <div =
style=3D"font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-siz=
e: 12pt;"> <div style=3D"font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times,=
 serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial=
"> <hr size=3D"1">  <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> R=
ick Whitman
 &lt;dendroica.caerulescens@gmail.com&gt;<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight=
: bold;">To:</span></b> naturens@chebucto.ns.ca <br> <b><span style=3D"font=
-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Saturday, November 10, 2012 3:31:43 PM<br>=
 <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> [NatureNS] Seed =
Cropping Strategy in Trees<br> </font> </div> <br>Someone here knows more t=
han I do. I think your focus is too much on<br>the negatives, to start with=
. I believe most tree seed crops, both<br>hardwood &amp; softwood, are stro=
ngly cyclical over large areas. The<br>cycles may be pushed, or damped, fro=
m time to time by extreme good /<br>bad growing seasons, but I believe they=
 will carry on regardless. As<br>you will know from your apple background, =
a very large crop one year<br>will almost always be followed by a small cro=
p the next. The trees<br>simply don't have the resources to produce large c=
rops every year.<br><br>A fruit grower modulates crop load by hand
 thinners or chemical<br>thinners. No such thing exists in the wild and it'=
s not obvious that<br>the trees would benefit from such. We think too much =
about how nuts<br>are spread around by birds and squirrels, to the trees' b=
enefit. We<br>need to remember that this is not the case at all for most or=
 all<br>softwoods &amp; many hardwoods. I'm sure there are minor exceptions=
<br>(carried seeds being lost) but overall conifers, maples, ash, birch<br>=
etc. ALL distribute their seeds by the wind. Seed eating birds are<br>PREDA=
TORS and nothing more.<br><br>Therefore, it makes perfect evolutionary sens=
e for widespread<br>populations of trees to synchronize their seed crops &a=
mp; overwhelm these<br>predators with abundance, in a highly cyclic fashion=
. The trees have<br>no "interest" in feeding these birds. The trees that ar=
e out of sync<br>will be heavily predated &amp; will not reproduce.<br><br>=
Now, someone can give the correct story.<br><br>Rick
 Whitman<br><br>On Sat, Nov 10, 2012 at 10:07 AM, David &amp; Alison Webste=
r<br>&lt;<a ymailto=3D"mailto:dwebster@glinx.com" href=3D"mailto:dwebster@g=
linx.com">dwebster@glinx.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>&gt; Hi Rick &amp; All,&nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Nov 10, 20=
12<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Is the distribution of this poor seed crop in 2012 =
associated with<br>&gt; distribution of dry weather this year (poor set or =
poor development) or with<br>&gt; adverse conditions in 2011 (fewer cones/f=
lower buds) ?<br>&gt; Yt, Dave Webster, Kentville<br>&gt; ----- Original Me=
ssage ----- From: "Rick Whitman"<br>&gt; &lt;<a ymailto=3D"mailto:dendroica=
.caerulescens@gmail.com" href=3D"mailto:dendroica.caerulescens@gmail.com">d=
endroica.caerulescens@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>&gt; To: "naturens" &lt;<a ymail=
to=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca" href=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.c=
a">naturens@chebucto.ns.ca</a>&gt;<br>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 20=
12
 1:34 PM<br>&gt; Subject: [NatureNS] Winter Finch Forecast, Other Northern =
Birds<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; I'm pretty sure I didn't post Ron Pittawa=
y's forecast for this winter<br>&gt;&gt; before. He predicted a big move ou=
t of the eastern North woods, but<br>&gt;&gt; they will only stay here in n=
umbers if they like the conditions. I do<br>&gt;&gt; have my doubts about o=
ur coniferous cone crop &amp; his article implies<br>&gt;&gt; the same:<br>=
&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; "The theme this winter is that each finch species will=
 use a different<br>&gt;&gt; strategy to deal with the widespread tree seed=
 crop failure in the<br>&gt;&gt; Northeast. It will be a quiet winter in th=
e eastern North Woods. See<br>&gt;&gt; individual species forecasts for det=
ails. Both coniferous and hardwood<br>&gt;&gt; tree seed crops are generall=
y poor from northeastern Ontario extending<br>&gt;&gt; eastward across Queb=
ec to Newfoundland south through the Maritime<br>&gt;&gt; Provinces,
 New York and New England States. Within the Northeast there<br>&gt;&gt; ar=
e pockets of good crops. Cone crops are much better in the Hudson<br>&gt;&g=
t; Bay Lowlands and northwestern Ontario west to Alberta, Northwest<br>&gt;=
&gt; Territories and Yukon. Three irruptive non-finch passerines whose<br>&=
gt;&gt; movements are linked to finches are also discussed."<br>&gt;&gt;<br=
>&gt;&gt; His article is here:<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"http://ww=
w.jeaniron.ca/2012/finchforecast2012.htm" target=3D"_blank">http://www.jean=
iron.ca/2012/finchforecast2012.htm</a><br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; A number of =
you have been seeing Evening Grosbeaks &amp; since Nov. 4 Ken<br>&gt;&gt; M=
cKenna &amp; Dominic Cormier have reported Pine Grosbeaks on eBird. I<br>&g=
t;&gt; also had 3 Pine Grosbeaks in my yard at White Rock yesterday. I don'=
t<br>&gt;&gt; see any eBird reports of Common Redpolls in NS yet. Today I h=
ad 46 at<br>&gt;&gt; Horton Landing feeding in birches. So I've already
 seen 2 winter<br>&gt;&gt; finches that in some years I don't see all winte=
r. It must be a winter<br>&gt;&gt; finch year.<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; On a=
 somewhat related note, I saw all of the following on the Grand<br>&gt;&gt;=
 Pre dykelands today: Horned Lark, American Pipit, Lapland Longspur &amp;<b=
r>&gt;&gt; Snow Bunting. These have all been "around" but this speaks of wi=
nter<br>&gt;&gt; to me.<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; Rick Whitman<br><br><br> </=
div> </div>  </div></body></html>
---2114655128-1808040968-1352643595=:14401--

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