[NatureNS] re ch. swifts vs. swallows et al. -- was Barn Swallows

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Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 10:43:06 -0300
From: nancy dowd <nancypdowd@gmail.com>
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Hi Paul and all

Is it the usual for Barn Swallows to not nest anywhere outside but
rather prefer inside spaces exclusively (barn, shed or garage or...)?
I have nature-loving friends who have rebuilt their barns and made
sure no swallows can get in and make a mess of their tractors etc.
They feel the Barn Swallows will nest outside under the eaves instead.
Maybe they are wrong?

I have to agree with George Forsyth. Watching Swallows of any species
swoop over open land is an aerial show worth seeing.

Nancy

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 10:15 AM, Paul MacDonald <paulrita2001@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Very interesting George
> One thing that cattle attracted was flies and mosquitos
> and the barn swallows followed the cattle closely.
> I grew up on a small mixed farm with 50 head of cattle
> and always lots of barn swallows. The swallows would light on
> the cattle's back in the field. In fact my Grandfather when he was
> working in the field would have them light on his shoulders.
> Of course there was so many added each year some would
> have to take up residence at other peoples farms or buildings.
> cattle or no cattle.
> There was two species Cliff Swallows ( Hirundo pyrrhonota ) which were
> called Eave Swallows and Barn Swallows ( Hirundo rustica ).
> Eave swallows nest outside under the eaves. My Grandfather had put
> up a board under the eave of the buildings  near the well where they
> nested. English Sparrows and Starlings done a bad job on them.
> Especially the Sparrows and the Eave swallows soon disapppeared
> when they arrived. The Barn swallows held on until the cattle left.
> We also had a large colony of Bank Swallows ( Riparia riparia ) in
> the front field. They nested in the south facing bank which was about 15 m
> in height.  It worked good - we could only cultivate to about 5 m
> from the edge the bank so that ground was undisturbed and left
> to the swallows. Horses had more fear of falling over the edge than did
> tractors!
> The arrival of the shunks finished that off. They dug out all the nests
> as well as  destroying all the tern eggs on the beach. We carried
> out an active control program on the shunks but they multiplied faster
> than my Grandfather could dispense them . Taught me a lot about
> predator control if nothing else. His favorite method was to put
> a batch of eggs about 30 m from where he could sit. He would
> do that for several evening in a row. One evening he would wait and
> when the feast was on he would help the celebration
> with both barrels of the 12 ga. Much like Canada Day now.
> Effective in the short tern but no long term effect.
> Anyway we miss the swallows
> Paul
>
>
>
> From: "g4syth@staff.ednet.ns.ca" <g4syth@staff.ednee them t.ns.ca>
> To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca; James W. Wolford <jimwolford@eastlink.ca>
> Cc: NatureNS <naturens@chebucto.ns.ca>; Ally (Allison) Manthorne
> <amanthorne@bsc-eoc.org>; Mark F Elderkin <elderkmf@gov.ns.ca>; Sherman
> Boates <boatesjs@gov.ns.ca>
> Sent: Monday, July 15, 2013 9:26:59 AM
> Subject: Re: [NatureNS] re ch. swifts vs. swallows et al. -- was Barn
> Swallows and Chimney Swifts
>
> Hi all,
>
> This is all very interesting, as both barn swallows and chimney swifts
> are less numerous than most of us middle and older aged naturalists
> remember from our past.
>
> When I grew up in Greenwich, Kings County NS there were barn swallows
> nesting in most of the barns in our community. From the west moving
> east: Murray Forsythe's barn had many nests, there were cattle but
> this barn is now gone; Richard Forsyth's ( now Harold's ) there were
> no cattle but swallows in many of the barns, they disappeared for a
> number of years but have returned in smaller numbers; Lewis Legge, now
> Stephen Legge, there were nests in all levels of the barn, cattle for
> only a few years that I remember, no nests presently; My dad's, George
> Forsyth's barn had barn swallows as I grew up, nests on three levels
> in some years, we had no livestock, there haven't been nests for
> twenty years; Lorna Huston, now Ivan Rafuse, a small modern garage,
> had swallow nests, never had livestock, the birds entered under the
> roll up door that was left open about four inches, these birds have
> gone; Herb Johnson's barn had no livestock, but barn swallow nests on
> two levels, this barn is now gone; Rhodes Hennigar's (now Doug), there
> has been no livestock for many years, but there is a continuous
> healthy population of barn swallows nesting on three levels of an old
> barn on the property, there is a source on mud in an area where they
> wash vegetables and fill farm machinery with water.
>
> In all of these cases the barns or garage are of wood construction,
> they have openings that are accessible to the birds, even open
> doorways, and there is a source of mud. The fact that livestock are
> present I don't think is as important, livestock will almost guarantee
> that there is mud, but if there is some other reason that mud is
> available as at Doug Hennigar's they will still be attracted.
>
> About twenty years ago I remember poking my head into an abandoned
> shed on the lower end of the Stewart Mtn Rd, in Lower Blomidon, there
> was a barn swallow nest in this building and the adults swooped and
> chattered as I looked inside the building. This was not a building
> being used for any purpose by people, and it had not been used for
> many years, but this pair of swallows found it attractive!
>
> I'm sure that the combination of conditions that attract barn swallows
> to nest is known to barn swallows and might never be understood by all
> of us. I also think that just as some of us find some areas attractive
> for our living, and might not be attracted to other places, individual
> barn swallow pairs might nest in conditions that are not necessarily
> "typical". As important as nesting
> is to barn swallow populations their time in Nova Scotia represents
> only one quarter of the year, there must be many other impacts on
> their population that are not related to nesting.
>
> In any case there is a relaxing pleasure in seeing barn swallows
> swooping and coursing a lawn, hay field or pasture on a sunny summer
> day, we should all be jealous of the freedom as they reel, in seeming
> abandon, countering gravity as we are bound to our lawn chairs!
>
>
> George E. Forsyth
>
>
> Quoting "James W. Wolford" <jimwolford@eastlink.ca>:
>
>> Regarding the chimney swift, the history is a bit complex and of
>> course the mathematics of this is/are unknown.  Remember that before
>> North Americans/Europeans built chimneys to which the swif