next message in archive
no next message in thread
previous message in archive
Index of Subjects
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_01BC_01CF624D.02B146D0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Paul, Apr 27, 2014
The relationships between tree ring width and age are quite diverse =
depending upon a host of circumstances that can be condensed, I think, =
to growing conditions, tree state and tree health.=20
Too often these relationships are described without reference to the =
common thread that helps to tie them all together; this thread being the =
tendency for ring width to be proportional to photosynthate flux per =
unit circumference.=20
DIGRESSION: Because trunk cross-sectional area is ideally pi(r^2) =
the rate of increase in area with increase in radius (i.e. ring width) =
will be proportional to 2pir i..e. pid. Accordingly, when the growth =
state of a tree is such that annual increase in trunk cross-sectional =
area is constant year after year then ring width must decrease =
throughout this period of constant growth rate.
END OF DIGRESSION
After a tree leaves the sometimes protracted period of seedling =
establishment, when rings may be paper thin, and enters a period of =
sometimes exponential growth in leaf area, when ring width may be =
unusually large and then slowly decreases, it will typically enter a =
period of steady growth. If it is neither dominant nor supressed, but =
just managing to maintain a fairly constant effective leaf area, then as =
noted above the annual increment in cross-sectional area will be =
relatively constant which implies decrease in ring width over time. When =
a tree enters into decline the annual increment in area will decrease =
over time leading to an even more obvious decrease in ring width.=20
When trees are dominant, the effective leaf area of the canopy may =
continue to increase for many decades after the initial period of rapid =
growth and this leads to an increase in annual in cross-sectional =
increment over time sometimes to the point that ring width remains =
relatively constant for many decades. Hemlock, Oak and Yellow Birch tend =
to become dominant by somehow often keeping seedlings suppressed or =
absent in a large area centered on the trunk.
Yt, Dave Webster, Kentville
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Paul MacDonald=20
To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca=20
Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2014 1:32 PM
Subject: Re: whoops:Fw: [NatureNS] Tree hugger's quandary - our =
biggest/oldest Yellow Birch
Hi Dave
As a further check I got a piece of Yellow birch from my woodpile. The =
out 20 mm of wood took 22 years to grow,
not much more than half the estimated growth rate of the monster on =
McNutts - I have no idea where my sample grew.
The width of the rings will be inversely proportional to the age. A =
young tree grows much bigger rings than an old tree for reasons too =
involved to discuss here. An old tree for sure.
Paul
On Saturday, April 26, 2014 12:43:45 PM, David & Alison Webster =
<dwebster@glinx.com> wrote:
Hi Again,
I notice that, for unintentional comic relief, I looked at 1500 =
and read=20
1700 so my numbers must be shifted accordingly. So average ring width =
would=20
be 1.78 mm and max age would be 475 years.
DW
----- Original Message -----=20
From: "David & Alison Webster" <dwebster@glinx.com>
To: <naturens@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2014 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: [NatureNS] Tree hugger's quandary - our biggest/oldest =
Yellow=20
Birch
> Hi All, Apr 26. 2-14
> If that tree is 17.5' in diameter then the head of that gentleman =
who=20
> is sitting on our right is 2.5' wide; a Guiness record for sure. =
Liars can=20
> figure but undoctored images don't lie. Assuming the number 17.5 was =
> accurately transcribed from some vaild source then that tree could =
be=20
> 17.5' in circumference; 5.57' in diameter (67") yielding a head =
"only" 10"=20
> wide [or perhaps 7" if he is sitting well in front of the trunk].
>
> Again, assuming 17.5' in diameter, the radius would be 2667 mm =
which=20
> assuming 1700 years, would yield an average ring width of 1.6 mm; =
entirely=20
> reasonable for Yellow Birch.
>
> Paul Bunyan with a magic increment borer could not extract a core =
2667=20
> mm long. Consequently, if a core was taken at all, it was likely no =
more=20
> than 10 cm long with an average ring width of `1.6 mm. And someone =
with a=20
> first-hand unfamiliarity with the facts subsequently used a=20
> state-of-the-art computer program to divide the incorrect diameter =
of=20
> 17.5' ( i.e. 5334 mm) by 2*1.6 mm.
>
> Therefore that tree is likely no more than 530 years old=20
> [5.57*6*25.4/1.6]; old nonetheless.
> Yt, Dave Webster, Kentville
> ----- Original Message -----=20
> From: "David Patriquin" <David.Patriquin@Dal.Ca>
> To: <naturens@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2014 9:54 AM
> Subject: RE: [NatureNS] Tree hugger's quandary - our biggest/oldest =
Yellow=20
> Birch
>
>
>> Old Trees of Nova Scotia - we purportedly have a 1500 year old =
Yellow=20
>> Birch
>> http://www.outdoornovascotia.com/ancient.htm
>> What do we know about it, e.g., was it actually aged by DNR?
>> ________________________________________
>> From: naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca <naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca> =
on=20
>> behalf of Stephen Shaw <srshaw@Dal.Ca>
>> Sent: Friday, April 25, 2014 8:07 PM
>> To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca
>> Subject: RE: [NatureNS] Tree hugger's quandary
>>
>> An impressive old tree indeed. At a conference in Cambridge UK =
~1996, a=20
>> short cut accompanied by the local organizer took us past (I think =
it=20
>> was) King's College where he pointed out a mature, tall horse =
chestnut=20
>> tree in full leaf outside the building, in great shape. Did I know =
that=20
>> there's an actual university committee which oversees looking after =
that=20
>> particular chestnut tree and only that one, he commented? I hope =
they=20
>> are still there (both the tree and the committee).
>>
>> Such extreme specialization may arise in part from England's being =
only=20
>> 2.4x larger in area than Nova Scotia but having a population =
density of=20
>> ~411 per square km versus Nova Scotia's ~17/squ km, in Cambridge U =
having=20
>> a student/faculty ratio of only ~1/4 of that in most Canadian (and =
other)=20
>> universities, and the fact that the English in particular cut down =
most=20
>> of 'their' trees in the Middle Ages and before, so perhaps have had =
time=20
>> to reflect on what little they have left.
>> Steve (Hfx)
>> ________________________________________
>> From: naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca [naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca] =
on=20
>> behalf of Dusan Soudek [soudekd@ns.sympatico.ca]
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 9:44 AM
>> To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca
>> Subject: Re: [NatureNS] Tree hugger's quandary
>>
>> A gorgeous big tree! And an interesting book on the old trees of =
the=20
>> U.K. They published a book about significant old trees in New =
Brunswick a=20
>> number of years ago. (I do have a copy, somewhere. Probably lent =
out.) I=20
>> don't believe there is one for Nova Scotia. Nimbus Publishing, are =
you=20
>> listening?
>> Dusan Soudek
>>
>>
>>> On April 22, 2014 at 7:41 PM David & Alison Webster =
<dwebster@glinx.com>=20
>>> wrote:
>>> Hi All, Apr 22, 2014
>>> Not NS natural history but I like this tree--
>>> =
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/gardening/plants/trees/8675208/Champion-trees-=
of-Britain-and-Ireland.html
>>> Yt, DW, Kentville
>>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2014.0.4570 / Virus Database: 3920/7389 - Release Date: =
04/24/14
>>
>=20
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4570 / Virus Database: 3920/7389 - Release Date: =
04/24/14
------=_NextPart_000_01BC_01CF624D.02B146D0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META name=3DGENERATOR content=3D"MSHTML 8.00.6001.23580">
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>Hi Paul, =20
=
=20
Apr 27, 2014</DIV>
<DIV> The relationships between tree ring width and =
age are=20
quite diverse depending upon a host of circumstances that can be =
condensed, I=20
think, to growing conditions, tree state and tree health. </DIV>
<DIV> Too often these relationships are described =
without=20
reference to the common thread that helps to tie them all =
together;=20
this thread being the tendency for ring width to be proportional to=20
photosynthate flux per unit circumference. </DIV>
<DIV> DIGRESSION: Because trunk cross-sectional area =
is=20
ideally pi(r^2) the rate of increase in area with increase in radius =
(i.e. ring=20
width) will be proportional to 2pir i..e. pid. Accordingly, when =
the growth=20
state of a tree is such that annual increase in trunk cross-sectional =
area is=20
constant year after year then ring width must decrease =
throughout this=20
period of constant growth rate.</DIV>
<DIV>END OF DIGRESSION</DIV>
<DIV> After a tree leaves the sometimes protracted =
period of=20
seedling establishment, when rings may be paper thin, and enters a =
period of=20
sometimes exponential growth in leaf area, when ring width may be=20
unusually large and then slowly decreases, it will typically =
enter a=20
period of steady growth. If it is neither dominant nor supressed, but =
just=20
managing to maintain a fairly constant effective leaf area, then as =
noted above=20
the annual increment in cross-sectional area will be relatively constant =
which=20
implies decrease in ring width over time. When a tree enters into =
decline the=20
annual increment in area will decrease over time leading to an =
even more obvious decrease in ring width. </DIV>
<DIV> When trees are dominant, the effective leaf area =
of the=20
canopy may continue to increase for many decades after the initial =
period of=20
rapid growth and this leads to an increase in annual in =
cross-sectional=20
increment over time sometimes to the point that ring width remains =
relatively=20
constant for many decades. Hemlock, Oak and Yellow Birch tend to =
become=20
dominant by somehow often keeping seedlings suppressed or =
absent in a=20
large area centered on the trunk.</DIV>
<DIV>Yt, Dave Webster, Kentville</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20
dir=3Dltr>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dpaulrita2001@yahoo.com =
href=3D"mailto:paulrita2001@yahoo.com">Paul=20
MacDonald</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dnaturens@chebucto.ns.ca=20
href=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca">naturens@chebucto.ns.ca</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, April 26, 2014 =
1:32=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: whoops:Fw: =
[NatureNS] Tree=20
hugger's quandary - our biggest/oldest Yellow Birch</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff; FONT-FAMILY: verdana, helvetica, =
sans-serif; COLOR: #000; FONT-SIZE: 14pt">
<DIV><SPAN>Hi Dave</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>As a further check I got a piece of Yellow birch from my =
woodpile.=20
The out 20 mm of wood took 22 years to grow,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>not much more than half the estimated growth rate of the =
monster on=20
McNutts - I have no idea where my sample grew.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>The width of the rings will be inversely proportional to =
the age. A=20
young tree grows much bigger rings than an old tree for reasons too =
involved=20
to discuss here. An old tree for sure.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>Paul</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"DISPLAY: block" class=3Dyahoo_quoted>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: =
14pt">
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, =
Lucida Grande, sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>On Saturday, April 26, 2014 =
12:43:45 PM,=20
David & Alison Webster <dwebster@glinx.com> =
wrote:<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=3Dy_msg_container>Hi Again,<BR> I notice that, =
for=20
unintentional comic relief, I looked at 1500 and read <BR>1700 so my =
numbers=20
must be shifted accordingly. So average ring width would <BR>be 1.78 =
mm and=20
max age would be 475 years.<BR>DW<BR>----- Original Message ----- =
<BR>From:=20
"David & Alison Webster" <<A href=3D"mailto:dwebster@glinx.com" =
=
ymailto=3D"mailto:dwebster@glinx.com">dwebster@glinx.com</A>><BR>To: =
<<A=20
href=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca"=20
=
ymailto=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca">naturens@chebucto.ns.ca</A>>=
;<BR>Sent:=20
Saturday, April 26, 2014 11:46 AM<BR>Subject: Re: [NatureNS] Tree =
hugger's=20
quandary - our biggest/oldest Yellow <BR>Birch<BR><BR><BR>> Hi =
All, =20
=
=20
Apr 26. 2-14<BR>> If that =
tree is=20
17.5' in diameter then the head of that gentleman who <BR>> is =
sitting on=20
our right is 2.5' wide; a Guiness record for sure. Liars can <BR>> =
figure=20
but undoctored images don't lie. Assuming the number 17.5 was <BR>> =
accurately transcribed from some vaild source then that tree could be =
<BR>>=20
17.5' in circumference; 5.57' in diameter (67") yielding a head "only" =
10"=20
<BR>> wide [or perhaps 7" if he is sitting well in front of the=20
trunk].<BR>><BR>> Again, assuming 17.5' in =
diameter, the=20
radius would be 2667 mm which <BR>> assuming 1700 years, would =
yield an=20
average ring width of 1.6 mm; entirely <BR>> reasonable for =
Yellow=20
Birch.<BR>><BR>> Paul Bunyan with a magic increment =
borer=20
could not extract a core 2667 <BR>> mm long. Consequently, if a =
core was=20
taken at all, it was likely no more <BR>> than 10 cm long with an =
average=20
ring width of `1.6 mm. And someone with a <BR>> first-hand =
unfamiliarity=20
with the facts subsequently used a <BR>> state-of-the-art computer =
program=20
to divide the incorrect diameter of <BR>> 17.5' ( i.e. 5334 mm) by =
2*1.6=20
mm.<BR>><BR>> Therefore that tree is likely no more =
than=20
530 years old <BR>> [5.57*6*25.4/1.6]; old nonetheless.<BR>> Yt, =
Dave=20
Webster, Kentville<BR>> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> From: =
"David=20
Patriquin" <<A href=3D"mailto:David.Patriquin@Dal.Ca"=20
=
ymailto=3D"mailto:David.Patriquin@Dal.Ca">David.Patriquin@Dal.Ca</A>><=
BR>>=20
To: <<A href=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca"=20
=
ymailto=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca">naturens@chebucto.ns.ca</A>>=
;<BR>>=20
Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2014 9:54 AM<BR>> Subject: RE: [NatureNS] =
Tree=20
hugger's quandary - our biggest/oldest Yellow <BR>>=20
Birch<BR>><BR>><BR>>> Old Trees of Nova Scotia - we =
purportedly=20
have a 1500 year old Yellow <BR>>> Birch<BR>>> <A=20
href=3D"http://www.outdoornovascotia.com/ancient.htm"=20
=
target=3D_blank>http://www.outdoornovascotia.com/ancient.htm</A><BR>>&=
gt;=20
What do we know about it, e.g., was it actually aged by =
DNR?<BR>>>=20
________________________________________<BR>>> From: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca"=20
=
ymailto=3D"mailto:naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca">naturens-owner@chebucto.=
ns.ca</A>=20
<<A href=3D"mailto:naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca"=20
=
ymailto=3D"mailto:naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca">naturens-owner@chebucto.=
ns.ca</A>>=20
on <BR>>> behalf of Stephen Shaw <<A =
href=3D"mailto:srshaw@Dal.Ca"=20
ymailto=3D"mailto:srshaw@Dal.Ca">srshaw@Dal.Ca</A>><BR>>> =
Sent: Friday,=20
April 25, 2014 8:07 PM<BR>>> To: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca"=20
=
ymailto=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca">naturens@chebucto.ns.ca</A><BR=
>>>=20
Subject: RE: [NatureNS] Tree hugger's quandary<BR>>><BR>>> =
An=20
impressive old tree indeed. At a conference in Cambridge UK =
~1996, a=20
<BR>>> short cut accompanied by the local organizer took us past =
(I=20
think it <BR>>> was) King's College where he pointed out a =
mature, tall=20
horse chestnut <BR>>> tree in full leaf outside the building, in =
great=20
shape. Did I know that <BR>>> there's an actual university =
committee which oversees looking after that <BR>>> particular =
chestnut=20
tree and only that one, he commented? I hope they <BR>>> =
are still=20
there (both the tree and the committee).<BR>>><BR>>> Such =
extreme=20
specialization may arise in part from England's being only =
<BR>>> 2.4x=20
larger in area than Nova Scotia but having a population density of=20
<BR>>> ~411 per square km versus Nova Scotia's ~17/squ km, in =
Cambridge=20
U having <BR>>> a student/faculty ratio of only ~1/4 of that in =
most=20
Canadian (and other) <BR>>> universities, and the fact that the =
English=20
in particular cut down most <BR>>> of 'their' trees in the =
Middle Ages=20
and before, so perhaps have had time <BR>>> to reflect on what =
little=20
they have left.<BR>>> Steve (Hfx)<BR>>>=20
________________________________________<BR>>> From: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca"=20
=
ymailto=3D"mailto:naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca">naturens-owner@chebucto.=
ns.ca</A>=20
[<A href=3D"mailto:naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca"=20
=
ymailto=3D"mailto:naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca">naturens-owner@chebucto.=
ns.ca</A>]=20
on <BR>>> behalf of Dusan Soudek [<A=20
href=3D"mailto:soudekd@ns.sympatico.ca"=20
=
ymailto=3D"mailto:soudekd@ns.sympatico.ca">soudekd@ns.sympatico.ca</A>]<B=
R>>>=20
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 9:44 AM<BR>>> To: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca"=20
=
ymailto=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca">naturens@chebucto.ns.ca</A><BR=
>>>=20
Subject: Re: [NatureNS] Tree hugger's =
quandary<BR>>><BR>>> A=20
gorgeous big tree! And an interesting book on the old trees of the=20
<BR>>> U.K. They published a book about significant old trees in =
New=20
Brunswick a <BR>>> number of years ago. (I do have a copy, =
somewhere.=20
Probably lent out.) I <BR>>> don't believe there is one for Nova =
Scotia.=20
Nimbus Publishing, are you <BR>>> listening?<BR>>> =
Dusan=20
Soudek<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>> On April 22, 2014 at =
7:41 PM=20
David & Alison Webster <<A href=3D"mailto:dwebster@glinx.com"=20
ymailto=3D"mailto:dwebster@glinx.com">dwebster@glinx.com</A>>=20
<BR>>>> wrote:<BR>>>> Hi All, Apr 22, =
2014<BR>>>>=20
Not NS natural history but I like this tree--<BR>>>> <A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.telegraph.co.uk/gardening/plants/trees/8675208/Champio=
n-trees-of-Britain-and-Ireland.html"=20
=
target=3D_blank>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/gardening/plants/trees/8675208=
/Champion-trees-of-Britain-and-Ireland.html</A><BR>>>>=20
Yt, DW, Kentville<BR>>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>=20
-----<BR>>> No virus found in this message.<BR>>> Checked =
by AVG -=20
www.avg.com<BR>>> Version: 2014.0.4570 / Virus Database: =
3920/7389 -=20
Release Date: 04/24/14<BR>>><BR>>=20
<BR><BR><BR><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><A></A>
<P align=3Dleft color=3D"#000000" avgcert??>No virus found in this=20
message.<BR>Checked by AVG - <A=20
href=3D"http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</A><BR>Version: 2014.0.4570 / =
Virus=20
Database: 3920/7389 - Release Date: =
04/24/14</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_01BC_01CF624D.02B146D0--
next message in archive
no next message in thread
previous message in archive
Index of Subjects