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--Apple-Mail=_C444AEC3-A4AB-400D-B526-FFBD109B1560 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Thanks to Randy and Phil for raising this very interesting topic plus = Randy=92s unusual example of the carrion beetle acting and looking like = a bumble bee. While I have no literature citations like Phil=92s, my = reading about monarchs (a Queen cousin) and viceroys has indicated that = this supposedly simple example is anything but. Apparently there are = large regional variations in distastefulness, which is probably partly = genetic and partly based on the different species and varieties of = food-plants of the two species of butterflies as caterpillars. There = are quite a few kinds of milkweeds and butterflyweeds in the genus = Asclepias. Thus if monarchs feed on non-toxic kinds, they will be very = poor models from the Batesian point of view. I also read somewhere that = our two most common milkweeds in Nova Scotia, namely common milkweed and = swamp milkweed, contain very little toxicity. I have also read that the = supposedly tasty viceroy has degrees of toxicity, as we read in the 1991 = paper cited by Phil. I have been teaching for a long time that very = bright colors in nature should be suspected of advertising some form of = distastefulness or worse, but obviously it ain=92t necessarily so! Can anyone out there provide any details on this for the viceroy & = monarch example? Cheers from Jim in Wolfville. Begin forwarded message: > From: Phil Schappert <philjs@eastlink.ca> > Subject: Re: [NatureNS] Batesian Mimic - got me > Date: September 22, 2014 at 2:59:56 PM ADT > To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca > Reply-To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca >=20 > At 12:48 PM -0300 9/22/14, Randy Lauff wrote: >> Likely, you've heard of the mimicry between the illness inducing = Monarch and the perfectly edible Viceroy. This is an example of Batesian = mimicry, where the mimic is not harmful, but benefits from looking like = it is. >=20 > Often, all is not as it seems at the best of times, Randy, especially = with the Viceroy mimicry system. See, for example, David Ritland's paper = (http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF00328409) on the = unpalatability of the mimetic Viceroy in comparison to its purported = model, the Queen, in Florida. >=20 > Phil >=20 > --=20 >=20 > Phil Schappert, PhD >=20 > 27 Clovis Ave. > Halifax, NS, B3P 1J3 > 902-460-8343 (cell) >=20 > philschappert.ca > imaginaturestudio.ca > imaginaturestudio.blogspot.ca > philschappert.com >=20 > "Just let imagination lead, reality will follow through..." > (Michael Hedges) --Apple-Mail=_C444AEC3-A4AB-400D-B526-FFBD109B1560 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 <html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html = charset=3Dwindows-1252"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; = -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">Thanks = to Randy and Phil for raising this very interesting topic plus Randy=92s = unusual example of the carrion beetle acting and looking like a bumble = bee. While I have no literature citations like Phil=92s, my = reading about monarchs (a Queen cousin) and viceroys has indicated that = this supposedly simple example is anything but. Apparently there = are large regional variations in distastefulness, which is probably = partly genetic and partly based on the different species and varieties = of food-plants of the two species of butterflies as caterpillars. = There are quite a few kinds of milkweeds and butterflyweeds in the = genus Asclepias. Thus if monarchs feed on non-toxic kinds, they = will be very poor models from the Batesian point of view. I also = read somewhere that our two most common milkweeds in Nova Scotia, namely = common milkweed and swamp milkweed, contain very little toxicity. = I have also read that the supposedly tasty viceroy has degrees of = toxicity, as we read in the 1991 paper cited by Phil. I have been = teaching for a long time that very bright colors in nature should be = suspected of advertising some form of distastefulness or worse, but = obviously it ain=92t necessarily so!<div><br></div><div>Can anyone out = there provide any details on this for the viceroy & monarch = example?<br><div><br></div><div>Cheers from Jim in = Wolfville.<br><div><br><div>Begin forwarded message:</div><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; = margin-left: 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; color:rgba(0, = 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>From: </b></span><span = style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica';">Phil Schappert <<a = href=3D"mailto:philjs@eastlink.ca">philjs@eastlink.ca</a>><br></span></= div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: = 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; = color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>Subject: </b></span><span = style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica';"><b>Re: [NatureNS] Batesian Mimic - = got me</b><br></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: = 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span = style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>Date: = </b></span><span style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica';">September 22, 2014 = at 2:59:56 PM ADT<br></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; = margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span = style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>To: = </b></span><span style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica';"><a = href=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca">naturens@chebucto.ns.ca</a><br></s= pan></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; = margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span = style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, = 1.0);"><b>Reply-To: </b></span><span style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica';"><a= = href=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca">naturens@chebucto.ns.ca</a><br></s= pan></div><br><div>At 12:48 PM -0300 9/22/14, Randy Lauff = wrote:<br><blockquote type=3D"cite">Likely, you've heard of the mimicry = between the illness inducing Monarch and the perfectly edible Viceroy. = This is an example of Batesian mimicry, where the mimic is not harmful, = but benefits from looking like it is.<br></blockquote><br>Often, all is = not as it seems at the best of times, Randy, especially with the Viceroy = mimicry system. See, for example, David Ritland's paper (<a = href=3D"http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF00328409">http://link= .springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF00328409</a>) on the unpalatability of = the mimetic Viceroy in comparison to its purported model, the Queen, in = Florida.<br><br>Phil<br><br>-- <br><br>Phil Schappert, PhD<br><br>27 = Clovis Ave.<br>Halifax, NS, B3P 1J3<br>902-460-8343 (cell)<br><br><a = href=3D"http://philschappert.ca">philschappert.ca</a><br>imaginaturestudio= .ca<br>imaginaturestudio.blogspot.ca<br>philschappert.com<br><br>"Just = let imagination lead, reality will follow through..."<br> = &n= bsp; &nbs= p; = (Michael = Hedges)<br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></body></html>= --Apple-Mail=_C444AEC3-A4AB-400D-B526-FFBD109B1560--
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