[NatureNS] re complexity of mimicry systems

From: Jim Wolford <jimwolford@eastlink.ca>
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 09:54:30 -0300
References: <D04639D9.53955%khillier@acadiau.ca>
To: naturens <naturens@chebucto.ns.ca>
Precedence: bulk
Return-Path: <naturens-mml-owner@chebucto.ns.ca>
Original-Recipient: rfc822;"| (cd /csuite/info/Environment/FNSN/MList; /csuite/lib/arch2html)"

next message in archive
next message in thread
previous message in archive
Index of Subjects



--Apple-Mail=_CC7F8370-4B41-49F4-93FE-50F539A0EF4E
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset=windows-1252

THANKS, KIRK, from Jim in Wolfville

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Kirk Hillier <kirk.hillier@acadiau.ca>
> Subject: Re: complexity of mimicry examples -- was Batesian Mimic - =
got me
> Date: September 22, 2014 at 8:47:48 PM ADT
> To: Jim Wolford <jimwolford@eastlink.ca>, naturens =
<naturens@chebucto.ns.ca>
> Cc: Todd Smith <todd.smith@acadiau.ca>
>=20
> My understanding is that all milkweed species will produce the cardiac =
glycosides which make them (and subsequently monarchs) distasteful or =
even toxic.  The amount produced by each species is undoubtedly =
variable.  It is worth noting that monarchs will feed on a Physocarpus =
(=92nine bark=92) species as well =96 I'd wager they're less toxic/non =
toxic under those circumstances.  The queen butterflies also sequester =
similar compounds from their food plants.
>=20
> Lots of interesting work done on both systems =96 Tom Eisner (the =
modern father of chemical ecology) looked at a huge range of mimics, and =
chemical defences from the point of view of spider and bird predation =96 =
his book, 'For Love of Insects" documents many of these studies.

> Cheers,
> Kirk
>=20
>=20
>=20
> From: "jimwolford@eastlink.ca" <jimwolford@eastlink.ca>
> Date: Monday, 22 September, 2014 4:21 PM
> To: naturens <naturens@chebucto.ns.ca>, Kirk Hillier =
<kirk.hillier@acadiau.ca>
> Cc: Todd Smith <todd.smith@acadiau.ca>, "jimwolford@eastlink.ca" =
<jimwolford@eastlink.ca>
> Subject: complexity of mimicry examples -- was Batesian Mimic - got me
>=20
> Thanks to Randy and Phil for raising this very interesting topic plus =
Randy=92s unusual example of the carrion beetle acting and looking like =
a bumble bee.  While I have no literature citations like Phil=92s, my =
reading about monarchs (a Queen cousin) and viceroys has indicated that =
this supposedly simple example is anything but.  Apparently there are =
large regional variations in distastefulness, which is probably partly =
genetic and partly based on the different species and varieties of =
food-plants of the two species of butterflies as caterpillars.  There =
are quite a few kinds of milkweeds and butterflyweeds in the genus =
Asclepias.  Thus if monarchs feed on non-toxic kinds, they will be very =
poor models from the Batesian point of view.  I also read somewhere that =
our two most common milkweeds in Nova Scotia, namely common milkweed and =
swamp milkweed, contain very little toxicity.  I have also read that the =
supposedly tasty viceroy has degrees of toxicity, as we read in the 1991 =
paper cited by Phil.  I have been teaching for a long time that very =
bright colors in nature should be suspected of advertising some form of =
distastefulness or worse, but obviously it ain=92t necessarily so!
>=20
> Can anyone out there provide any details on this for the viceroy & =
monarch example?
>=20
> Cheers from Jim in Wolfville.
>=20
> Begin forwarded message:
>=20
>> From: Phil Schappert <philjs@eastlink.ca>
>> Subject: Re: [NatureNS] Batesian Mimic - got me
>> Date: September 22, 2014 at 2:59:56 PM ADT
>> To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca
>> Reply-To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca
>>=20
>> At 12:48 PM -0300 9/22/14, Randy Lauff wrote:
>>> Likely, you've heard of the mimicry between the illness inducing =
Monarch and the perfectly edible Viceroy. This is an example of Batesian =
mimicry, where the mimic is not harmful, but benefits from looking like =
it is.
>>=20
>> Often, all is not as it seems at the best of times, Randy, especially =
with the Viceroy mimicry system. See, for example, David Ritland's paper =
(http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF00328409) on the =
unpalatability of the mimetic Viceroy in comparison to its purported =
model, the Queen, in Florida.
>>=20
>> Phil
>>=20
>> --=20
>>=20
>> Phil Schappert, PhD
>>=20
>> 27 Clovis Ave.
>> Halifax, NS, B3P 1J3
>> 902-460-8343 (cell)
>>=20
>> philschappert.ca
>> imaginaturestudio.ca
>> imaginaturestudio.blogspot.ca
>> philschappert.com
>>=20
>> "Just let imagination lead, reality will follow through..."
>>                                       (Michael Hedges)
>=20


--Apple-Mail=_CC7F8370-4B41-49F4-93FE-50F539A0EF4E
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=windows-1252

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dwindows-1252"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;">THANKS, KIRK, from Jim in =
Wolfville<br><div><br><div>Begin forwarded message:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; color:rgba(0, =
0, 0, 1.0);"><b>From: </b></span><span =
style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica';">Kirk Hillier &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:kirk.hillier@acadiau.ca">kirk.hillier@acadiau.ca</a>&gt;<br=
></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span =
style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>Subject: =
</b></span><span style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica';"><b>Re: complexity of =
mimicry examples -- was Batesian Mimic - got me</b><br></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; color:rgba(0, =
0, 0, 1.0);"><b>Date: </b></span><span =
style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica';">September 22, 2014 at 8:47:48 PM =
ADT<br></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span =
style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>To: =
</b></span><span style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica';">Jim Wolford &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:jimwolford@eastlink.ca">jimwolford@eastlink.ca</a>&gt;, =
naturens &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca">naturens@chebucto.ns.ca</a>&gt;<br=
></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span =
style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>Cc: =
</b></span><span style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica';">Todd Smith &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:todd.smith@acadiau.ca">todd.smith@acadiau.ca</a>&gt;<br></s=
pan></div><br><div>