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Hi Nick & All, =20
I agree, against the backdrop of history, when only the very rich =
and powerful had sufficient food, the cost of industrial food is nearly =
zero; unless you are jobless, homeless or poor for other reasons and =
then it is beyond reach except through charity. Shameful but true.
DIGRESSION\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
Recently I read an article about Ebla, a city long gone near Aleppo, =
Syria (National Geographic 154(6):730-759, 1978). About 2500 BC in the =
Middle East it was commonly accepted that : p. 741 "The monarch was =
expected to defend the widowed, the orphaned and the poor from all =
exploitation and injustice... Failure to protect the poor could cost a =
king his throne." We have come a long way; downhill.
So I understand; there are currently more than 2200 homeless =
Veterans in Canada [talk of a monument to honor Veterans] and more than =
120,000 homeless with mental problems. From their viewpoint and the many =
poor who barely scrape by paying more for food is not an option.
END OF DIGRESSION\\\\\\\\\\
Organic is fine for a while and fine for those who can afford it. =
Ultimately it can be sustained only if nutrients extracted =
can in some way be replenished. There is likely enough in circulation =
here to last at least another 50 years. When nutrients become seriously =
depleted I am sure people will eventually catch on and act accordingly.=20
Meanwhile it is a valid reaction against industrial agriculture so =
it has my blessing and financial support.
Yt, DW Kentville
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Nicholas Hill=20
To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca=20
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2016 11:18 AM
Subject: Re: [NatureNS] Public consultation re use of pesticide... GMO =
crops and loss of weedy species
yes, paying more for food is the key to being fair to farmers, =
communities and nature.
We get food at ridiculously low cost..PEI potatoes, valley apples.
The weed near a cereal crop does least damage as cereal germinates =
first and preempts smaller seeded, later starting weeds.
It's not so much for human health reasons, Organic should be best for =
natural world or do we need another label..naturesafe?
Nick
On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 9:35 AM, rita.paul@ns.sympatico.ca =
<rita.paul@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote:
The reason Herbicides are so much better from a farmers point of =
view=20
David is that herbicides kill the weeds close to the planted crop.=20
The weeds in the middle of the rows are not very harmful and are =
easy=20
to control by cultivation.=20
However the weeds close to the plants cause the reduction in yields. =
They rob moisture, nutrients sunlight and harbour insects but there=20
is no way a farmer can remove them by cultivation. short of the old =
hand hoe.=20
In addition they make harvesting more difficult by not allowing the =
crop=20
to dry out in the short days of fall.=20
Farmers tell me herbicides give the best return on investment of=20
all their inputs. But maybe we would like to pay more for food!=20
Enjoy the thaw=20
Paul=20
=20
On February 4, 2016 at 8:33 AM David Patriquin =
<davidgpatriquin@yahoo.ca> wrote:=20
=20
=20
Incororating resistance to Roundup & now a couple of other =
herbicides (because weeds also becoming resistant) in GMO crops has one =
huge effect on wildlife that I don't see discussed much or at all: the =
complete obliteration of weedy species over massive areas, not seen much =
in NS but go to Que and Ont where field after large field of GMO =
soybean, maize and cannola are grown, and they are virtually dead except =
for the crops; even after the crops are taken off they remain free of =
weedy species. Under traditional management, weeds were set back by =
tillage to allow crop to get established, then a diversity of weedy =
species grow up in the understory, flowering and providing food for =
pollinators, seeds for wildlife.. and after the crop is taken off, =
groundcover. No more so. The farmers like the GMO crops because of the =
simplified management, but with selection of appropriate cultivars, some =
mechanical management, reducing some types of tillage...weeds can be =
controlled without eliminating them and our farm fields can be more =
supportive of wildlife. =20
=20
Glyphosate is toxic to plants and bacteria, so has huge effects on =
the microbiotia also..=20
=20
Agreed, Nick: " As naturalists, impacts on natural world are our =
major responsibility."=20
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
From: Nicholas Hill <fernhillns@gmail.com>
To: "naturens@chebucto.ns.ca" <naturens@chebucto.ns.ca>=20
Sent: Thursday, February 4, 2016 7:32 AM
Subject: Re: [NatureNS] Public consultation re use of pesticide =
Atrazine in Canada: a re-evaluation
David,=20
no confusion here. Listserve focus is on nature not human safety. =
Atrazine article deals with human safety concerns not biodiversity.=20
If we want to take a stand on pesticides it would be for their =
biodiversity implications of which there are tons. Roundup is an example =
but there are many=20
showing impacts of other pesticides on native bees and other =
pollinators.=20
Nick=20
=20
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1890/04-1291/abstract=20
=
http://www.jstor.org/stable/40983228?seq=3D1#page_scan_tab_contents=20
=20
On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 9:02 PM, David & Alison Webster =
<dwebster@glinx.com> wrote:=20
Hi Nick,=20
The item dealt with Atrazine not Roundup. Best not to =
confuse matters. =20
Dave W =20
=20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Nicholas Hill=20
To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca=20
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 8:12 PM=20
Subject: Re: [NatureNS] Public consultation re use of =
pesticide Atrazine in Canada: a re-evaluation=20
=20
Gyphosate (roundup) going under radar despite the lethal =
impacts of amphibian larvae (ca 98% kill) from the surfactant used to =
get the pesticide across the plant's cuticle.=20
Not supposed to be used near water courses but amphibians are =
in swampy woods.=20
As naturalists, impacts on natural world are our major =
responsibility. Physicians (royal...Ontario. .forget the association) =
did take a stand against recreational and household usage of pesticide =
on the basis of human health risk. We can stand up for nature.=20
Nick=20
On Feb 3, 2016 5:59 PM, "N Robinson" < nrobbyn@gmail.com> =
wrote:=20
Hello everyone,=20
A member of the Quebec branch of the Sierra Club just sent =
me an email regarding Canada's Pest Management Regulatory Agency doing a =
re-evaluation of the pesticide Atrazine (announced December 15 2015).=20
Some of you, more knowledgeable than I, might want to send =
them some feedback.=20
=
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/cps-spc/pest/part/consultations/_rev2015-11/rev201=
5-11-eng.php=20
Re-evaluation Note REV2015-11, Special Review of Atrazine: =
Proposed Decision for Consultation
Nancy=20
No virus found in this message.=20
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7441 / Virus Database: 4522/11542 - Release =
Date: 02/02/16=20
=20
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7441 / Virus Database: 4522/11552 - Release Date: =
02/04/16
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8" http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META name=3DGENERATOR content=3D"MSHTML 8.00.6001.23588">
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>Hi Nick & All, =
=20
</DIV>
<DIV> I agree, against the backdrop of history, when =
only the=20
very rich and powerful had sufficient food, the cost of industrial food =
is=20
nearly zero; unless you are jobless, homeless or poor for other reasons =
and then=20
it is beyond reach except through charity. Shameful but true.</DIV>
<DIV>DIGRESSION\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\</DIV>
<DIV> Recently I read an article about Ebla, a city =
long gone=20
near Aleppo, Syria (National Geographic 154(6):730-759, 1978). About =
2500 BC in=20
the Middle East it was commonly accepted that : p. 741 "The =
monarch=20
was expected to defend the widowed, the orphaned and the poor from =
all=20
exploitation and injustice... Failure to protect the poor could cost a =
king his=20
throne." We have come a long way; downhill.</DIV>
<DIV> So I understand; there are currently more than =
2200=20
homeless Veterans in Canada [talk of a monument to honor Veterans] and =
more than=20
120,000 homeless with mental problems. From their viewpoint and the many =
poor=20
who barely scrape by paying more for food is not an option.</DIV>
<DIV>END OF DIGRESSION\\\\\\\\\\</DIV>
<DIV> Organic is fine for a while and fine for those =
who can=20
afford it. =20
Ultimately it can be sustained only if nutrients =
extracted=20
can in some way be replenished. There is likely enough in circulation =
here to=20
last at least another 50 years. When nutrients become seriously =
depleted I=20
am sure people will eventually catch on and act accordingly. </DIV>
<DIV> Meanwhile it is a valid reaction against =
industrial=20
agriculture so it has my blessing and financial support.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Yt, DW Kentville</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20
dir=3Dltr>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dfernhillns@gmail.com =
href=3D"mailto:fernhillns@gmail.com">Nicholas=20
Hill</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dnaturens@chebucto.ns.ca=20
href=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca">naturens@chebucto.ns.ca</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, February 04, =
2016 11:18=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NatureNS] Public=20
consultation re use of pesticide... GMO crops and loss of weedy =
species</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr>yes, paying more for food is the key to being fair to =
farmers,=20
communities and nature.
<DIV>We get food at ridiculously low cost..PEI potatoes, valley =
apples.</DIV>
<DIV>The weed near a cereal crop does least damage as cereal =
germinates first=20
and preempts smaller seeded, later starting weeds.</DIV>
<DIV>It's not so much for human health reasons, Organic should be best =
for=20
natural world or do we need another label..naturesafe?<BR>Nick<BR>
<DIV class=3Dgmail_extra><BR>
<DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 9:35 AM, <A=20
href=3D"mailto:rita.paul@ns.sympatico.ca"=20
target=3D_blank>rita.paul@ns.sympatico.ca</A> <SPAN dir=3Dltr><<A=20
href=3D"mailto:rita.paul@ns.sympatico.ca"=20
target=3D_blank>rita.paul@ns.sympatico.ca</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; =
PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"=20
class=3Dgmail_quote><U></U>
<DIV>
<DIV>The reason Herbicides are so much better from a farmers =
point of=20
view </DIV>
<DIV>David is that herbicides kill the weeds close to the planted =
crop.=20
</DIV>
<DIV>The weeds in the middle of the rows are not very harmful and =
are easy=20
</DIV>
<DIV>to control by cultivation. </DIV>
<DIV>However the weeds close to the plants cause the reduction in =
yields.=20
</DIV>
<DIV>They rob moisture, nutrients sunlight and harbour insects but =
there=20
</DIV>
<DIV>is no way a farmer can remove them by cultivation. short of the =
old=20
hand hoe. </DIV>
<DIV>In addition they make harvesting more difficult by not allowing =
the=20
crop </DIV>
<DIV>to dry out in the short days of fall. </DIV>
<DIV>Farmers tell me herbicides give the best return on investment =
of </DIV>
<DIV>all their inputs. But maybe we would like to pay more for food! =
</DIV>
<DIV>Enjoy the thaw </DIV><SPAN><FONT color=3D#888888>
<DIV>Paul </DIV></FONT></SPAN>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: blue 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 10px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 0px"=20
type=3D"cite">On February 4, 2016 at 8:33 AM David Patriquin <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:davidgpatriquin@yahoo.ca"=20
target=3D_blank>davidgpatriquin@yahoo.ca</A>> wrote: <BR><BR>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff; FONT-FAMILY: =
HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif; =
COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 13px">
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr>Incororating resistance to Roundup & now a =
couple of=20
other herbicides (because weeds also becoming resistant) in GMO =
crops has=20
one huge effect on wildlife that I don't see discussed much or at =
all: the=20
complete obliteration of weedy species over massive areas, not =
seen much=20
in NS but go to Que and Ont where field after large field of GMO =
soybean,=20
maize and cannola are grown, and they are virtually dead except =
for the=20
crops; even after the crops are taken off they remain free of =
weedy=20
species. Under traditional management, weeds were set back by =
tillage to=20
allow crop to get established, then a diversity of weedy species =
grow up=20
in the understory, flowering and providing food for pollinators, =
seeds for=20
wildlife.. and after the crop is taken off, groundcover. No more =
so. The=20
farmers like the GMO crops because of the simplified management, =
but with=20
selection of appropriate cultivars, some mechanical management, =
reducing=20
some types of tillage...weeds can be controlled without =
eliminating them=20
and our farm fields can be more supportive of wildlife. =
</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr> </DIV>
<DIV>Glyphosate is toxic to plants and bacteria, so has huge =
effects on=20
the microbiotia also.. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr>Agreed, Nick: " <SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 16px">As =
naturalists,=20
impacts on natural world are our major responsibility."</SPAN> =
</DIV><BR>
<DIV><BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV style=3D"DISPLAY: block">
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue,Helvetica =
Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 13px">
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue,Helvetica =
Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 16px">
<DIV dir=3Dltr>
<HR SIZE=3D1>
<SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: small"><STRONG><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></STRONG> Nicholas Hill =
<<A=20
href=3D"mailto:fernhillns@gmail.com"=20
target=3D_blank>fernhillns@gmail.com</A>><BR><STRONG><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></STRONG> "<A=20
href=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca"=20
target=3D_blank>naturens@chebucto.ns.ca</A>" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca"=20
target=3D_blank>naturens@chebucto.ns.ca</A>> <BR><STRONG><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></STRONG> Thursday, =
February 4, 2016=20
7:32 AM<BR><STRONG><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></STRONG> Re: =
[NatureNS] Public=20
consultation re use of pesticide Atrazine in Canada: a=20
re-evaluation<BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr>David,=20
<DIV>no confusion here. Listserve focus is on nature not human =
safety.=20
Atrazine article deals with human safety concerns not =
biodiversity. </DIV>
<DIV>If we want to take a stand on pesticides it would be for =
their=20
biodiversity implications of which there are tons. Roundup is an =
example=20
but there are many </DIV>
<DIV>showing impacts of other pesticides on native bees and other=20
pollinators. </DIV>
<DIV>Nick </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><A =
href=3D"http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1890/04-1291/abstract"=20
=
target=3D_blank>http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1890/04-1291/abstra=
ct</A>=20
<BR clear=3Dnone>
<DIV><A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.jstor.org/stable/40983228?seq=3D1#page_scan_tab_conten=
ts"=20
=
target=3D_blank>http://www.jstor.org/stable/40983228?seq=3D1#page_scan_ta=
b_contents</A>=20
<BR clear=3Dnone>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><BR clear=3Dnone>
<DIV>On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 9:02 PM, David & Alison Webster=20
<SPAN><<A href=3D"mailto:dwebster@glinx.com"=20
target=3D_blank>dwebster@glinx.com</A>></SPAN> wrote: <BR =
clear=3Dnone>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #cccccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"><SPAN=20
style=3D"TEXT-DECORATION: underline"></SPAN>
<DIV>
<DIV>Hi Nick, </DIV>
<DIV> The item dealt with Atrazine not =
Roundup.=20
Best not to confuse matters. </DIV>
<DIV>Dave W </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; =
font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><STRONG>From:</STRONG>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:fernhillns@gmail.com" =
target=3D_blank>Nicholas Hill</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; =
font-stretch: normal"><STRONG>To:</STRONG>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca"=20
target=3D_blank>naturens@chebucto.ns.ca</A> </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; =
font-stretch: normal"><STRONG>Sent:</STRONG>=20
Wednesday, February 03, 2016 8:12 PM </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; =
font-stretch: normal"><STRONG>Subject:</STRONG>=20
Re: [NatureNS] Public consultation re use of pesticide =
Atrazine in=20
Canada: a re-evaluation </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr>Gyphosate (roundup) going under radar despite =
the lethal=20
impacts of amphibian larvae (ca 98% kill) from the surfactant =
used to=20
get the pesticide across the plant's cuticle. <BR =
clear=3Dnone>Not=20
supposed to be used near water courses but amphibians are in =
swampy=20
woods. <BR clear=3Dnone>As naturalists, impacts on natural =
world are our=20
major responsibility. Physicians (royal...Ontario. .forget the =
association) did take a stand against recreational and =
household=20
usage of pesticide on the basis of human health risk. We can =
stand up=20
for nature. </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr>Nick </DIV>
<DIV>On Feb 3, 2016 5:59 PM, "N Robinson" < <A=20
href=3D"mailto:nrobbyn@gmail.com"=20
target=3D_blank>nrobbyn@gmail.com</A>> wrote: <BR =
clear=3Dnone>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #cccccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex">
<DIV dir=3Dltr>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>Hello everyone, <BR clear=3Dnone><BR =
clear=3Dnone></DIV> A=20
member of the Quebec branch of the Sierra Club just sent me =
an email=20
regarding Canada's Pest Management Regulatory Agency doing a =
re-evaluation of the pesticide Atrazine (announced December =
15=20
2015). <BR clear=3Dnone><BR clear=3Dnone></DIV>Some of you, =
more=20
knowledgeable than I, might want to send them some feedback. =
<BR=20
clear=3Dnone><BR clear=3Dnone> <A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/cps-spc/pest/part/consultations/_rev2015-1=
1/rev2015-11-eng.php"=20
=
target=3D_blank>http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/cps-spc/pest/part/consultations/_r=
ev2015-11/rev2015-11-eng.php</A>=20
<BR clear=3Dnone>
<H1><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: small">Re-evaluation Note =
REV2015-11,=20
Special Review of Atrazine: Proposed Decision for=20
Consultation</SPAN></H1></DIV>Nancy=20
</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><A></A></DIV></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft>No virus found in this message. <SPAN><BR=20
clear=3Dnone>Checked by AVG - <A href=3D"http://www.avg.com/"=20
target=3D_blank>www.avg.com</A><BR clear=3Dnone>Version: =
2016.0.7441 /=20
Virus Database: 4522/11542 - Release Date: 02/02/16</SPAN>=20
=
</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR><=
BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR> =20
=
</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV><A></A>
<P align=3Dleft color=3D"#000000" avgcert??>No virus found in this=20
message.<BR>Checked by AVG - <A=20
href=3D"http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</A><BR>Version: 2016.0.7441 / =
Virus=20
Database: 4522/11552 - Release Date: =
02/04/16</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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