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<DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 6:26 PM, Jim
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Hi Paul & All, Mar 13, 2016
I never hunted Geese, except with binoculars, and except in the =
Shubie. Wildlife Park rarely or perhaps never was within shotgun range. =
They, compared to the Eskimo Curlew, are huge and I agree that a 22, =
although illegal I believe, would be a more effective way to gather =
Geese for food than any gauge of shotgun.=20
My small bore shotgun was intended to suitably arm the bird watcher =
out to gather tongue in cheek ultimate proof of Eskimo Curley =
non-extinction. More about that later.
In early days, so I understand from information gleaned from Lord =
knows where in the 50's, when specimens were needed for taxonomic =
studies 28 gauge was used with a minimum charge of medium to very small =
shot depending upon the bird size; barely enough to drop it with minimum =
damage to plumage.=20
As bird size decreases and especially if they are readily within =
shotgun range and in motion then a shotgun is indicated (less wasted =
meat and fewer missed shots) but, as with anything else, it helps to be =
there and failing that a first-hand account is the next best thing.=20
Typical Passenger Pigeon size was, from internet sources, 24" =
wingspan, length 17". tail length 8" and, John Muir (The story of my =
boyhood and youth) gives first-hand accounts of relatively large flocks =
being hunted for table use (not market hunting) as follows: "Every =
shotgun was aimed at them and everybody feasted on pigeon pies...".=20
Market hunting was another matter and John makes use of Audubon's =
first-hand accounts. As observed by Audubon the hunting was at night, =
mostly after the flocks were on night roosts. They were either knocked =
from the roosts using long poles or clubbed after branches (and =
sometimes entire trees) broke under the weight of birds. Guns were also =
used but in the flickering light of pine torches or near darkness and in =
a mob of people gathering, plucking and salting birds, horses hauling =
wagons of birds away and eventually pigs let loose (to eat missed birds) =
use of a rifle seems unlikely to say the least. When squabs were =
gathered, large areas of trees were felled and the young birds were =
transported from Wisconsin to New York where they were sold at a penny =
each. Some were baited and caught in nets.
The Eskimo Curlew was even smaller; 12" long and to judge from =
illustrations the body would be about 6" long and relatively slim. I =
have seen no accounts of market hunting but, from internet sources, =
about 2 million were killed annually in the late 1800's.
Getting back to extinction questions, and this was the meat of my =
original post, it does not make sense to apply Boolean logic [Is/is not] =
to a system with huge observational uncertainty. Sweating buckets to =
decide between is/is not extinct if anything detracts from a summary of =
the raw data which I understand to be 'few confirmed observations in the =
last 50 years and possibly extinct or near extinction'. In the absence =
of a well organized and systematic multi-year survey of areas where/when =
a bird like the Eskimo Curlew should be seen the question is best left =
hanging and just let the evidence, such as it is, accumulate. And why =
bother; knowing for sure that it is extinct will not bring it back.=20
=20
It is more productive I think to focus energy and resources on =
slowing the rate of environmental degradation in one's immediate area or =
possibly reversing this at least locally than to literally study =
problems, at great expense, at the far ends of the earth.=20
There are likely Arthropods in most habitats in NS which are not yet =
known to be present here. It does not take much looking to notice that =
an unkempt yard and unmowed lawn provides habitat for life and that =
frequent use of a rotary mower and trucking yard "waste" away for =
composting degrades potential habitat for life.
Happy lawn unmanagement,
DW, Kentville
=20
=20
=20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: rita.paul@ns.sympatico.ca=20
To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca=20
Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2016 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: [NatureNS] Eskimo Curlew article, March 8/16, Valley =
Harvester -- was Endangered Species Articles
=EF=BB=BF Well Dave the stories I heard in my younger days from=20
old retired market hunters of which there was quite a few in the =
Maritimes=20
and they agreed with Zack - small bore I agree but rifles.=20
And they didn't use small bore shotguns either! More like 8 guage and=20
even punt guns. The rifles were used when the geese were out of =
shotgun=20
range - over 40 yards.=20
Market hunters were very useful members of the community before =
electricity=20
came around. A fresh goose at St Patricks day was as prized as a =
turkey at Thanksgiving=20
or Christmas. No KFC in those days!=20
Its unfortunate the stories of market hunters were forgotten when=20
it became illegal and looked down upon.=20
Will those days return?=20
Enjoy the last of winter=20
Paul=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
On March 11, 2016 at 9:20 PM David & Alison Webster =
<dwebster@glinx.com> wrote:=20
Hi All, Mar 11, 2016=20
I guess the moral of that story is this >). If you wish to =
establish beyond all doubt that a very sparse bird is not yet extinct =
then you should go armed. But a small bore shotgun would be more likely =
to furnish proof than a rifle which, contrary to Zack's comment (" dense =
flocks were often met by hunters and their rifles,"), I don't think =
would ever have been used for market hunting of birds.=20
Remember the Coelacanth; even if you can't remember how to spell =
it. Sixty five million years (65,000,000) is greater than fifty (50) by =
a wide margin.=20
It is sort of like the lost watch. One can prove that it really =
is not lost by finding it. But it is not possible to prove with absolute =
certainty that it really is lost. And if you find it don't shoot it. =
There are better ways to kill time.=20
Yt, Dave Webster, Kentville=20
=20
Yt, DW=20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Rick Whitman=20
To: naturens=20
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 8:28 PM=20
Subject: Re: [NatureNS] Eskimo Curlew article, March 8/16, Valley =
Harvester -- was Endangered Species Articles=20
=20
=
http://valleyharvester.ca/2016/03/08/the-eskimo-curlew-the-schrodingers-c=
at-of-endangered-species/=20
On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 6:26 PM, Jim Wolford =
<jimwolford@eastlink.ca> wrote:=20
The newspaper is the Valley Harvester =E2=80=94 Google that and =
then search =E2=80=9CZack Metcalfe=E2=80=9D, and I got the article right =
away, complete with an Audubon illustration. Cheers from Jim, in =
Wolfville.=20
Begin forwarded message:=20
From: Angus MacLean <cold_mac@hotmail.com>
Subject: [NatureNS] Endangered Species Articles
Date: March 11, 2016 at 4:04:42 PM AST
To: naturens <naturens@chebucto.ns.ca>
Reply-To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca
The Annapolis Valley has several free weekly newspapers. In =
one of them, the Weekly Harvester, Zack Metcalfe has been featured for =
quite some time in a series on endangered species which he terms the =
Endangered Perspective. As one would expect most feature birds & this =
week's article is on the Eskimo Curlew.=20
=20
The Weekly Harvester has a website but unfortunately Mr. =
Metcalfe's article is not accessible.=20
For those of you outside of the Valley, remember to pick up a =
copy whenever you're here. They can be found in most shops, markets.=20
Angus=20
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7442 / Virus Database: 4540/11795 - Release Date: =
03/11/16
=20
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7442 / Virus Database: 4540/11795 - Release Date: =
03/11/16
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>Hi Paul & All, =
=20
=
=20
Mar 13, 2016</DIV>
<DIV> I never hunted Geese, except with binoculars, =
and except=20
in the Shubie. Wildlife Park rarely or perhaps never was within =
shotgun=20
range. They, compared to the Eskimo Curlew, are huge and I =
agree that=20
a 22, although illegal I believe, would be a more effective way to =
gather=20
Geese for food than any gauge of shotgun. </DIV>
<DIV> My small bore shotgun was intended to =
suitably=20
arm the bird watcher out to gather <EM>tongue in cheek</EM> =
ultimate proof=20
of Eskimo Curley non-extinction. More about that later.</DIV>
<DIV> In early days, so I understand from information =
gleaned=20
from Lord knows where in the 50's, when specimens were needed for =
taxonomic=20
studies 28 gauge was used with a minimum charge of medium to very small =
shot=20
depending upon the bird size; barely enough to drop it with minimum =
damage to=20
plumage. </DIV>
<DIV> As bird size decreases and especially if they =
are=20
readily within shotgun range and in motion then a shotgun is indicated =
(less=20
wasted meat and fewer missed shots) but, as with anything =
else, it=20
helps to be there and failing that a first-hand account is the next best =
thing.=20
</DIV>
<DIV> Typical Passenger Pigeon size was, =
from=20
internet sources, 24" wingspan, length 17". tail length 8" and, =
John Muir=20
(The story of my boyhood and youth) gives first-hand accounts of =
relatively=20
large flocks being hunted for table use (not market hunting) as follows: =
"Every=20
<STRONG>shotgun</STRONG> was aimed at them and everybody feasted on =
pigeon=20
pies...". </DIV>
<DIV> Market hunting was another matter and John makes =
use of=20
Audubon's first-hand accounts. As observed by Audubon the =
hunting was=20
at night, mostly after the flocks were on night roosts. They were =
either=20
knocked from the roosts using long poles or clubbed after branches (and=20
sometimes entire trees) broke under the weight of birds. Guns were also=20
used but in the flickering light of pine torches or near =
darkness and=20
in a mob of people gathering, plucking and salting birds, horses=20
hauling wagons of birds away and eventually pigs let =
loose (to=20
eat missed birds) use of a rifle seems unlikely to say the=20
least. When squabs were gathered, large areas of trees were felled =
and the=20
young birds were transported from Wisconsin to New York where they were =
sold at=20
a penny each. Some were baited and caught in nets.</DIV>
<DIV> The Eskimo Curlew was even smaller; 12" long and =
to=20
judge from illustrations the body would be about 6" long and relatively =
slim. I=20
have seen no accounts of market hunting but, from internet sources, =
about 2=20
million were killed annually in the late 1800's.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> Getting back to extinction questions, and this =
was the=20
meat of my original post, it does not make sense to apply Boolean logic =
[Is/is=20
not] to a system with huge observational uncertainty. Sweating =
buckets to=20
decide between is/is not extinct if anything detracts from a summary of =
the raw=20
data which I understand to be 'few confirmed observations in the last 50 =
years=20
and possibly extinct or near extinction'. In the absence of a well =
organized and=20
systematic multi-year survey of areas where/when a bird like the Eskimo =
Curlew=20
should be seen the question is best left hanging and just let the =
evidence, such=20
as it is, accumulate. And why bother; knowing for sure that it is =
extinct=20
will not bring it back. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> It is more productive I think to focus energy =
and=20
resources on slowing the rate of environmental degradation in one's =
immediate area or possibly reversing this at least locally than to =
literally=20
study problems, at great expense, at the far ends of the earth. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> There are likely Arthropods in =
most habitats in=20
NS which are not yet known to be present here. It does not =
take much=20
looking to notice that an unkempt yard and unmowed lawn provides habitat =
for=20
life and that frequent use of a rotary mower and trucking yard "waste" =
away for=20
composting degrades potential habitat for life.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Happy lawn unmanagement,</DIV>
<DIV>DW, Kentville</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20
dir=3Dltr>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Drita.paul@ns.sympatico.ca=20
=
href=3D"mailto:rita.paul@ns.sympatico.ca">rita.paul@ns.sympatico.ca</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dnaturens@chebucto.ns.ca=20
href=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca">naturens@chebucto.ns.ca</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, March 12, 2016 =
9:42=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NatureNS] Eskimo =
Curlew=20
article, March 8/16, Valley Harvester -- was Endangered Species =
Articles</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>=EF=BB=BF Well Dave the stories I heard in my younger days from =
</DIV>
<DIV>old retired market hunters of which there was quite a few in the=20
Maritimes </DIV>
<DIV>and they agreed with Zack - small bore I agree but rifles. </DIV>
<DIV>And they didn't use small bore shotguns either! More like 8 guage =
and=20
</DIV>
<DIV>even punt guns. The rifles were used when the geese were out of =
shotgun=20
</DIV>
<DIV>range - over 40 yards. </DIV>
<DIV>Market hunters were very useful members of the community before=20
electricity </DIV>
<DIV>came around. A fresh goose at St Patricks day was as prized as a =
turkey=20
at Thanksgiving </DIV>
<DIV>or Christmas. No KFC in those days! </DIV>
<DIV>Its unfortunate the stories of market hunters were forgotten when =
</DIV>
<DIV>it became illegal and looked down upon. </DIV>
<DIV>Will those days return? </DIV>
<DIV>Enjoy the last of winter </DIV>
<DIV>Paul </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"POSITION: relative; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1px solid; =
PADDING-LEFT: 10px; MARGIN-LEFT: 0px"=20
type=3D"cite">On March 11, 2016 at 9:20 PM David & Alison Webster=20
<dwebster@glinx.com> wrote: <BR><BR>
<DIV>Hi All, =
=
=20
Mar 11, 2016 </DIV>
<DIV> I guess the moral of that story is this =
>). If=20
you wish to establish beyond all doubt that a very sparse =
bird is=20
not yet extinct then you should go armed. But a small bore shotgun =
would be=20
more likely to furnish proof than a rifle which, contrary to Zack's =
comment=20
(" <SPAN=20
style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; BACKGROUND-COLOR: =
#ffffff; TEXT-INDENT: 10px; DISPLAY: inline; FONT: 13px/22px 'Droid =
Sans'; WHITE-SPACE: normal; FLOAT: none; COLOR: #555555; WORD-SPACING: =
0px; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">dense=20
flocks were often met by hunters and their rifles,")</SPAN>, I =
don't=20
think would ever have been used for market hunting of birds. =
</DIV>
<DIV> Remember the Coelacanth; even if you can't =
remember=20
how to spell it. Sixty five million years (65,000,000) is greater =
than fifty=20
(50) by a wide margin. </DIV>
<DIV> It is sort of like the lost watch. One can =
prove=20
that it really is not lost by finding it. But it is =
not possible to=20
prove with absolute certainty that it really is lost. And if you =
find it=20
don't shoot it. There are better ways to kill time. </DIV>
<DIV>Yt, Dave Webster, Kentville </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Yt, DW </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: =
normal">-----=20
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-size-adjust: =
none; font-stretch: normal; font-color: black"><STRONG>From:</STRONG>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:dendroica.caerulescens@gmail.com">Rick =
Whitman</A> </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: =
normal"><STRONG>To:</STRONG>=20
naturens </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: =
normal"><STRONG>Sent:</STRONG>=20
Friday, March 11, 2016 8:28 PM </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: =
normal"><STRONG>Subject:</STRONG>=20
Re: [NatureNS] Eskimo Curlew article, March 8/16, Valley Harvester =
-- was=20
Endangered Species Articles </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr><A=20
=
href=3D"http://valleyharvester.ca/2016/03/08/the-eskimo-curlew-the-schrod=
ingers-cat-of-endangered-species/">http://valleyharvester.ca/2016/03/08/t=
he-eskimo-curlew-the-schrodingers-cat-of-endangered-species/</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV class=3Dgmail_extra><BR>
<DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 6:26 PM, Jim =
Wolford=20
<SPAN><<A href=3D"mailto:jimwolford@eastlink.ca"=20
target=3D_blank>jimwolford@eastlink.ca</A>></SPAN> wrote: <BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #cccccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex">
<DIV>The newspaper is the Valley Harvester =E2=80=94 Google that =
and then search=20
=E2=80=9CZack Metcalfe=E2=80=9D, and I got the article right =
away, complete with an=20
Audubon illustration. Cheers from Jim, in Wolfville. <BR>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>Begin forwarded message: </DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
<DIV style=3D"MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica'"><STRONG>From: =
</STRONG></SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica'">Angus MacLean <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:cold_mac@hotmail.com"=20
target=3D_blank>cold_mac@hotmail.com</A>><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style=3D"MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica'"><STRONG>Subject:=20
</STRONG></SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica'"><STRONG>[NatureNS] =
Endangered Species=20
Articles</STRONG><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style=3D"MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica'"><STRONG>Date: =
</STRONG></SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica'">March 11, 2016 at 4:04:42 =
PM=20
AST<BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style=3D"MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica'"><STRONG>To: =
</STRONG></SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica'">naturens <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca"=20
=
target=3D_blank>naturens@chebucto.ns.ca</A>><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style=3D"MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica'"><STRONG>Reply-To:=20
</STRONG></SPAN><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica'"><A=20
href=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca"=20
=
target=3D_blank>naturens@chebucto.ns.ca</A><BR></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; FONT: 12pt =
Calibri; WHITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; font-size-adjust: none; =
font-stretch: normal">
<DIV dir=3Dltr>The Annapolis Valley has several free weekly =
newspapers.=20
In one of them, the Weekly Harvester, Zack Metcalfe has been =
featured=20
for quite some time in a series on endangered species which he =
terms=20
the Endangered Perspective. As one would expect most feature =
birds=20
& this week's article is on the Eskimo Curlew. <BR> =
<BR>The=20
Weekly Harvester has a website but unfortunately Mr. =
Metcalfe's=20
article is not accessible. <BR><BR>For those of you outside of =
the=20
Valley, remember to pick up a copy whenever you're here. They =
can be=20
found in most shops, markets. <BR>Angus=20
=
</DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV><A></=
A>
<P align=3Dleft>No virus found in this message.<BR>Checked by AVG =
- <A=20
href=3D"http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</A><BR>Version: =
2016.0.7442 / Virus=20
Database: 4540/11795 - Release Date: =
03/11/16</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR> </DIV><A></A>
<P align=3Dleft color=3D"#000000" avgcert??>No virus found in this=20
message.<BR>Checked by AVG - <A=20
href=3D"http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</A><BR>Version: 2016.0.7442 / =
Virus=20
Database: 4540/11795 - Release Date: =
03/11/16</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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