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Hi Paul & All,
You echo my suspicions Paul but in the absence of proof I am=20
inclined to let some pollen analyst date the establishment time. It=20
could also have arrived there without human help in common with most=20
things. And arrived much before European contact. Without doubt they=20
would have needed thatch. Perhaps someone can say if the taxonomic=20
details of that patch are consistent with European origin.
Yt, DW, Kentville
------ Original Message ------
From: "rita.paul@ns.sympatico.ca" <rita.paul@ns.sympatico.ca>
To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca
Sent: 11/27/2017 3:27:24 PM
Subject: Re: Re[4]: [NatureNS] Masters Student Conducting Phragmites=20
Research
>Well Dave and All it always seemed to me that the patch
>at Annapolis would have descended from those brought
>here by the Acadians many years ago. The purpose would
>have been for thatching roofs. A very good idea to have a good
>roof over head this time of year! We once lived in a house in Holland
>with a thatched roof. It worked well.
>In Albert County NB a similar grass is called Broadleaf. I don't
>know if they are the same grass but I was told their original
>use was for thatching. Some folks seem to include Reed Canary
>grass in the family but it is a different family widely used as
>a forage crop.
>Enjoy the snow flakes!
>Paul
>
>
>
>
> > On November 26, 2017 at 7:23 PM David <dwebster@glinx.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi Bev & All,
> > Is that patch of Phragmites by any chance located just west and
> > south of the road and railway bridge leading to Digby ? Back in the=20
>50s,
> > when I collected in NS, that large very large patch and another in
> > Antigonish Co. were the only ones known (drawing on memory). I expect=
=20
>it
> > has persisted at Annapolis Royal because that swamp is tidal and few
> > tall plants are that tolerant of salt.
> > Those who get excited about "invasive species" should go look in a
> > mirror and reflect.
> > Yt, DW, Kentville
> > ------ Original Message ------
> > From: "Bev Wigney" <bkwigney@gmail.com>
> > To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca
> > Sent: 11/26/2017 10:05:48 AM
> > Subject: Re: Re[2]: [NatureNS] Masters Student Conducting Phragmites
> > Research
> >
> > >All,
> > >
> > >Regarding Phragmites -- Having resided in eastern Ontario for=20
>decades
> > >and having also seen what invasive Phragmites has done to wetlands=20
>in
> > >Ontario and Quebec, I think Fred's warnings are well worth heeding.
> > >Fred has been closely monitoring the spread of Phragmites for=20
>decades
> > >and probably knows more about it than just about anyone else in
> > >eastern Canada. Even based on my own casual observations, I know
> > >that, where once there were patches that could be measured in=20
>meters,
> > >many of those "patches" must now be measured in hectares of an
> > >impenetrable monoculture mass. Along freeways, it is measured not in
> > >meters but kilometres. I'm on the Field Botanists of Ontario
> > >Facebook group where Fred has also posted about the Phragmites=20
>survey
> > >and I can attest to the fact that in the comments, no one is saying
> > >"ignore it" or "live with it". Virtually everyone is talking
> > >*eradication* because we've all seen at least a few wetland areas in
> > >our regions completely destroyed by Phragmites as it chokes ditches
> > >and dries up wetland habitat. As mentioned in the article I've=20
>linked
> > >at the end of this post, the rhizomes are meters long with new=20
>shoots
> > >sprouting up along them. They also secrete soil toxins that destroy
> > >other plants -- see this link:
> > >https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/10/071012084128.htm
> > >
> > >Now, I've only lived in the Annapolis Royal area a few years, but in
> > >this time, the "little patch" of Phragmites that I first saw in the
> > >late 1990s is now all over the place in the vicinity of the French
> > >Basic wetland trail. Again, something that once could have been
> > >measured in meters is now approaching the "measured in hectares"
> > >stage. Unfortunately, I don't think there has been much effort to=20
>try
> > >to do anything about it. I've asked around a bit and it seems like
> > >everyone knows it is a growing problem, but all are at a loss about
> > >what to do about it.
> > >
> > >Anyhow, here's a pretty good article on Phragmites, its impact on
> > >wetland habitat, farmland, etc.. and also on eradication efforts
> > >being attempted in Ontario:
> >=20
> >https://tvo.org/article/current-affairs/climate-watch/phragmites-are-ont=
arios-worst-invasive-plants--but-the-phragbusters-are-on-the-case
> > >
> > >Bev Wigney
> > >Round Hill, NS
> > >
> > >On 11/25/17, David <dwebster@glinx.com> wrote:
> > >>Hi Fred & All,
> > >> Before the 101 series Highways were built, Phragmites was local
> > >>and
> > >>uncommon in NS. The mowing along with wide and often wet ditches=20
>with
> > >>bare soil has generated Phragmites heaven. It is a great plant. If
> > >>left
> > >>unmowed it will survive and generate bird habitat, especially in
> > >>winter.
> > >>Something breaks those culms and leaves down over a period of 2-3
> > >>years
> > >>and that implies a cascade of organisms..
> > >> It has been widely used in the Netherlands for reclamation of
> > >>polders because it improves soil structure and therefore drainage.=20
>One
> > >>low corner of our garden was wet all summer; for 23 years. I=20
>planted
> > >>Phragmites there in 1991 and by 2000 that corner was well drained;
> > >>excellent soil structure. It is absent in the original corner=20
>because,
> > >>like most plants, it generates conditions which are unsuitable for=20
>its
> > >>needs. It is not a threat to anything but in ditches on a grade it=20
>may
> > >>be expected to decrease soil erosion and it will increase
> > >>infiltration;
> > >>also desirable.
> > >> As dad used to say; "Don't pick that scab."
> > >>Yt, DW, Kentville
> > >>
> > >>------ Original Message ------
> > >>From: "Douglas Guptill" <dguptill@accesswave.ca>
> > >>To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca
> > >>Sent: 11/25/2017 5:22:45 PM
> > >>Subject: Re: [NatureNS] Masters Student Conducting Phragmites=20
>Research
> > >>
> > >>>Go away with your herbicides.
> > >>>
> > >>>Douglas
> > >>>
> > >>>On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 04:00:55PM -0500, Frederick W. Schueler
> > >>>wrote:
> > >>>>Maritimers,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>As some may recall, ever since I first found invasive European=20
>Reed
> > >>>>(Phragmites australis ssp australis) at Chatham, NB, in 2001,=20
>I've
> > >>>>been
> > >>>>trying alarm Maritimers about the threat this invader poses to
> > >>>>coastal
> > >>>>(and
> > >>>>inland) ecology, so that it can be controlled early on, when the
> > >>>>stands are
> > >>>>still small and scattered. -
> >=20
> >>>>http://karstaddailypaintings.blogspot.ca/2010/10/view-from-beausejour=
.html
> > >>>>
> > >>>>-
> > >>>>or look at everything in our blog at
> > >>>>http://karstaddailypaintings.blogspot.ca/search?q=3Dphragmites
> > >>>>
> > >>>>In Ontario, where the invader spread like wildfire through the=20
>1980s
> > >>>>and
> > >>>>1990s, action is now beginning to be taken by cutting and
> > >>>>herbiciding
> > >>>>stands
> > >>>>in wetlands and along highways, and there's even more control=20
>effort
> > >>>>in the
> > >>>>States, where the problem (unrecognized at the time) began in the
> > >>>>1940s and
> > >>>>1950s.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Anamika Ray is doing her Masters research on =E2=80=9Cthe technical=
=20
>efficacy
> > >>>>and
> > >>>>_social opinions_ on herbicide use as a best management practice=20
>for
> > >>>>controlling Phragmites,=E2=80=9D at the University of Toronto.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>She has an online survey of knowledge & opinions on Invasive
> > >>>>Phragmites
> > >>>>which she'd appreciate having filled out by as wide a range of
> > >>>>people
> > >>>>as
> > >>>>possible - https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/M8MZZ8N - and she'd=20
>very
> > >>>>much
> > >>>>appreciate Maritime participation in this.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>fred.
> > >>>>------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>>> Frederick W. Schueler & Aleta Karstad
> > >>>> Fragile Inheritance Natural History
> > >>>>Mudpuppy Night in Oxford Mills - http://pinicola.ca/mudpup1.htm
> > >>>>'Daily' Paintings - http://karstaddailypaintings.blogspot.com/
> > >>>>4 St-Lawrence Street Bishops Mills, RR#2 Oxford Station, Ontario=20
>K0G
> > >>>>1T0
> > >>>> on the Smiths Falls Limestone Plain 44* 52'N 75* 42'W
> > >>>>(613)258-3107 <bckcdb at istar.ca> http://pinicola.ca/
> > >>>>------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>>>------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>
> > >>
> >
--------=_MBA73954AC-BAE2-4B1F-8FD2-D9FC4B3389B9
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<?xml version=3D"1.0" encoding=3D"utf-16"?><html><head>
=20
=20
<style id=3D"css_styles" type=3D"text/css"><!--blockquote.cite { margin-le=
ft: 5px; margin-right: 0px; padding-left: 10px; padding-right:0px; border-l=
eft: 1px solid #cccccc }
blockquote.cite2 {margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px; padding-left: 10px;=
padding-right:0px; border-left: 1px solid #cccccc; margin-top: 3px; padding=
-top: 0px; }
a img { border: 0px; }
ol, ul { list-style-position: inside }=20
body { font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 12pt; }--></style></head><body><di=
v>Hi Paul & All,</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 You echo my suspicions Paul bu=
t in the absence of proof I am inclined to let some pollen analyst date the =
establishment time. It could also have arrived there without human help in =
common with most things. And arrived much before European contact. Without =
doubt they would have needed thatch. Perhaps someone can say if the taxono=
mic details of that patch are consistent with European origin.=C2=A0</div><=
div>Yt, DW, Kentville</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0</div>
<div><br /></div>
<div>------ Original Message ------</div>
<div>From: "rita.paul@ns.sympatico.ca" <<a href=3D"mailto:rita.paul@ns.s=
ympatico.ca">rita.paul@ns.sympatico.ca</a>></div>
<div>To: <a href=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca">naturens@chebucto.ns.ca=
</a></div>
<div>Sent: 11/27/2017 3:27:24 PM</div>
<div>Subject: Re: Re[4]: [NatureNS] Masters Student Conducting Phragmites R=
esearch</div><div><br /></div>
<div id=3D"x576d20b53d5b46a"><blockquote cite=3D"1681723769.448397.15118108=
44469.open-xchange@webmail.bellaliant.net" type=3D"cite" class=3D"cite2">
=20
<div>
Well Dave and All it always seemed to me that the patch
</div>=20
<div>
at Annapolis would have descended from those brought<br />
</div>=20
<div>
here by the Acadians many years ago. The purpose would<br />
</div>=20
<div>
have been for thatching roofs. A very good idea to have a good<br />
</div>=20
<div>
roof over head this time of year! We once lived in a house in Holland<br =
/>
</div>=20
<div>
with a thatched roof. It worked well.<br />
</div>=20
<div>
In Albert County NB=C2=A0a similar grass is called Broadleaf. I don't<br =
/>
</div>=20
<div>
know if they are the same grass but I was told their original<br />
</div>=20
<div>
use was for thatching. Some folks seem to include Reed Canary<br />
</div>=20
<div>
grass in the family but it is a different family widely used as<br />
</div>=20
<div>
a forage crop.<br />
</div>=20
<div>
Enjoy the snow flakes!<br />
</div>=20
<div>
Paul<br />
</div>=20
<div>
=C2=A0
</div>=20
<div>
=C2=A0
</div>=20
<div>
=C2=A0
</div>=20
<div>
<br />> On November 26, 2017 at 7:23 PM David <<a href=3D"mailto:d=
webster@glinx.com">dwebster@glinx.com</a>> wrote:
<br />>=20
<br />>=20
<br />> Hi Bev & All,
<br />> Is that patch of Phragmites by any chance located just west a=
nd=20
<br />> south of the road and railway bridge leading to Digby ? Back=
in the 50s,=20
<br />> when I collected in NS, that large very large patch and anoth=
er in=20
<br />> Antigonish Co. were the only ones known (drawing on memory).=
I expect it=20
<br />> has persisted at Annapolis Royal because that swamp is tidal=
and few=20
<br />> tall plants are that tolerant of salt.
<br />> Those who get excited about "invasive species" should go look =
in a=20
<br />> mirror and reflect.
<br />> Yt, DW, Kentville
<br />> ------ Original Message ------
<br />> From: "Bev Wigney" <<a href=3D"mailto:bkwigney@gmail.com">=
bkwigney@gmail.com</a>>
<br />> To: <a href=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca">naturens@chebu=
cto.ns.ca</a>
<br />> Sent: 11/26/2017 10:05:48 AM
<br />> Subject: Re: Re[2]: [NatureNS] Masters Student Conducting Phr=
agmites=20
<br />> Research
<br />>=20
<br />> >All,
<br />> >
<br />> >Regarding Phragmites -- Having resided in eastern Ontario =
for decades
<br />> >and having also seen what invasive Phragmites has done to =
wetlands in
<br />> >Ontario and Quebec, I think Fred's warnings are well wort=
h heeding.
<br />> >Fred has been closely monitoring the spread of Phragmites =
for decades
<br />> >and probably knows more about it than just about anyone e=
lse in
<br />> >eastern Canada. Even based on my own casual observations, =
I know
<br />> >that, where once there were patches that could be measure=
d in meters,
<br />> >many of those "patches" must now be measured in hectares=
of an
<br />> >impenetrable monoculture mass. Along freeways, it is meas=
ured not in
<br />> >meters but kilometres. I'm on the Field Botanists of Onta=
rio
<br />> >Facebook group where Fred has also posted about the Phrag=
mites survey
<br />> >and I can attest to the fact that in the comments, no one =
is saying
<br />> >"ignore it" or "live with it". Virtually everyone is talk=
ing
<br />> >*eradication* because we've all seen at least a few wetla=
nd areas in
<br />> >our regions completely destroyed by Phragmites as it chok=
es ditches
<br />> >and dries up wetland habitat. As mentioned in the article =
I've linked
<br />> >at the end of this post, the rhizomes are meters long wit=
h new shoots
<br />> >sprouting up along them. They also secrete soil toxins th=
at destroy
<br />> >other plants -- see this link:
<br />> ><a href=3D"https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/10/=
071012084128.htm">https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/10/07101208412=
8.htm</a>
<br />> >
<br />> >Now, I've only lived in the Annapolis Royal area a few ye=
ars, but in
<br />> >this time, the "little patch" of Phragmites that I first=
saw in the
<br />> >late 1990s is now all over the place in the vicinity of t=
he French
<br />> >Basic wetland trail. Again, something that once could hav=
e been
<br />> >measured in meters is now approaching the "measured in he=
ctares"
<br />> >stage. Unfortunately, I don't think there has been much e=
ffort to try
<br />> >to do anything about it. I've asked around a bit and it s=
eems like
<br />> >everyone knows it is a growing problem, but all are at a=
loss about
<br />> >what to do about it.
<br />> >
<br />> >Anyhow, here's a pretty good article on Phragmites, its i=
mpact on
<br />> >wetland habitat, farmland, etc.. and also on eradication=
efforts
<br />> >being attempted in Ontario:
<br />> ><a href=3D"https://tvo.org/article/current-affairs/climat=
e-watch/phragmites-are-ontarios-worst-invasive-plants--but-the-phragbusters=
-are-on-the-case">https://tvo.org/article/current-affairs/climate-watch/phr=
agmites-are-ontarios-worst-invasive-plants--but-the-phragbusters-are-on-the=
-case</a>
<br />> >
<br />> >Bev Wigney
<br />> >Round Hill, NS
<br />> >
<br />> >On 11/25/17, David <<a href=3D"mailto:dwebster@glinx.c=
om">dwebster@glinx.com</a>> wrote:
<br />> >>Hi Fred & All,
<br />> >> Before the 101 series Highways were built, Phragmite=
s was local=20
<br />> >>and
<br />> >>uncommon in NS. The mowing along with wide and often=
wet ditches with
<br />> >>bare soil has generated Phragmites heaven. It is a gr=
eat plant. If=20
<br />> >>left
<br />> >>unmowed it will survive and generate bird habitat, es=
pecially in=20
<br />> >>winter.
<br />> >>Something breaks those culms and leaves down over a p=
eriod of 2-3=20
<br />> >>years
<br />> >>and that implies a cascade of organisms..
<br />> >> It has been widely used in the Netherlands for recla=
mation of
<br />> >>polders because it improves soil structure and theref=
ore drainage. One
<br />> >>low corner of our garden was wet all summer; for 23 y=
ears. I planted
<br />> >>Phragmites there in 1991 and by 2000 that corner was=
well drained;
<br />> >>excellent soil structure. It is absent in the origina=
l corner because,
<br />> >>like most plants, it generates conditions which are u=
nsuitable for its
<br />> >>needs. It is not a threat to anything but in ditches=
on a grade it may
<br />> >>be expected to decrease soil erosion and it will incr=
ease=20
<br />> >>infiltration;
<br />> >>also desirable.
<br />> >> As dad used to say; "Don't pick that scab."
<br />> >>Yt, DW, Kentville
<br />> >>
<br />> >>------ Original Message ------
<br />> >>From: "Douglas Guptill" <<a href=3D"mailto:dguptil=
l@accesswave.ca">dguptill@accesswave.ca</a>>
<br />> >>To: <a href=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca">nature=
ns@chebucto.ns.ca</a>
<br />> >>Sent: 11/25/2017 5:22:45 PM
<br />> >>Subject: Re: [NatureNS] Masters Student Conducting Ph=
ragmites Research
<br />> >>
<br />> >>>Go away with your herbicides.
<br />> >>>
<br />> >>>Douglas
<br />> >>>
<br />> >>>On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 04:00:55PM -0500, Frederi=
ck W. Schueler=20
<br />> >>>wrote:
<br />> >>>>Maritimers,
<br />> >>>>
<br />> >>>>As some may recall, ever since I first found=
invasive European Reed
<br />> >>>>(Phragmites australis ssp australis) at Chath=
am, NB, in 2001, I've
<br />> >>>>been
<br />> >>>>trying alarm Maritimers about the threat this =
invader poses to=20
<br />> >>>>coastal
<br />> >>>>(and
<br />> >>>>inland) ecology, so that it can be controlled =
early on, when the
<br />> >>>>stands are
<br />> >>>>still small and scattered. -
<br />> >>>><a href=3D"http://karstaddailypaintings.blogs=
pot.ca/2010/10/view-from-beausejour.html">http://karstaddailypaintings.blog=
spot.ca/2010/10/view-from-beausejour.html</a>
<br />> >>>>
<br />> >>>>-
<br />> >>>>or look at everything in our blog at
<br />> >>>><a href=3D"http://karstaddailypaintings.blogs=
pot.ca/search?q=3Dphragmites">http://karstaddailypaintings.blogspot.ca/sear=
ch?q=3Dphragmites</a>
<br />> >>>>
<br />> >>>>In Ontario, where the invader spread like wil=
dfire through the 1980s
<br />> >>>>and
<br />> >>>>1990s, action is now beginning to be taken by =
cutting and=20
<br />> >>>>herbiciding
<br />> >>>>stands
<br />> >>>>in wetlands and along highways, and there's e=
ven more control effort
<br />> >>>>in the
<br />> >>>>States, where the problem (unrecognized at th=
e time) began in the
<br />> >>>>1940s and
<br />> >>>>1950s.
<br />> >>>>
<br />> >>>>Anamika Ray is doing her Masters research on =
=E2=80=9Cthe technical efficacy
<br />> >>>>and
<br />> >>>>_social opinions_ on herbicide use as a best=
management practice for
<br />> >>>>controlling Phragmites,=E2=80=9D at the Unive=
rsity of Toronto.
<br />> >>>>
<br />> >>>>She has an online survey of knowledge & o=
pinions on Invasive
<br />> >>>>Phragmites
<br />> >>>>which she'd appreciate having filled out by a=
s wide a range of=20
<br />> >>>>people
<br />> >>>>as
<br />> >>>>possible - <a href=3D"https://www.surveymonke=
y.com/r/M8MZZ8N">https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/M8MZZ8N</a> - and she'd ver=
y
<br />> >>>>much
<br />> >>>>appreciate Maritime participation in this.
<br />> >>>>
<br />> >>>>fred.
<br />> >>>>---------------------------------------------=
---------------
<br />> >>>> Frederick W. Schueler & Aleta Karstad
<br />> >>>> Fragile Inheritance Natural History
<br />> >>>>Mudpuppy Night in Oxford Mills - <a href=3D"h=
ttp://pinicola.ca/mudpup1.htm">http://pinicola.ca/mudpup1.htm</a>
<br />> >>>>'Daily' Paintings - <a href=3D"http://karstad=
dailypaintings.blogspot.com/">http://karstaddailypaintings.blogspot.com/</a=
>
<br />> >>>>4 St-Lawrence Street Bishops Mills, RR#2 Oxfo=
rd Station, Ontario K0G
<br />> >>>>1T0
<br />> >>>> on the Smiths Falls Limestone Plain 44* 52'N =
75* 42'W
<br />> >>>>(613)258-3107 <bckcdb at istar.ca> <a h=
ref=3D"http://pinicola.ca/">http://pinicola.ca/</a>
<br />> >>>>---------------------------------------------=
---------------
<br />> >>>>---------------------------------------------=
---------------
<br />> >>
<br />> >>
<br />>=20
</div>
=20
</blockquote></div>
</body></html>
--------=_MBA73954AC-BAE2-4B1F-8FD2-D9FC4B3389B9--
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