Greetings to the Mat Concerned
Below is a rough digest of the e-mail I received in response to my request for
advice on replacing the mats in our dojo.
Just for the fun of it and where it was easy to do, I've made URL's
sent in people's sigs etc. linkable.
Many thanks to everyone who took the time to offer the benefit of their experience.
The basic conclusion I've come to is that the commercial "Swain" judo style mats
are indeed the way to go. Now it's just a question of figuring out how to
raise the thousands of dollars required.
My original post
From: Michael Connor
Reply to: Aikido List
To: Multiple recipients of list AIKIDO-L
Subject: Mat info please
Hi:
Our dojo, Halifax Aikikai (that's in Nova Scotia, Canada) is faced with
finding a way to replace our mats and I volunteered ( you'd think I'd learn)
to find out what our options might be.
We'd really appreciate advice or suggestions from people who have recently
invested in new mats. (Especially as it applies to great innovative
ideas that seemed to make sense but well err didn't.)
In order not to clutter up the list it probably makes sense for people to
e-mail me privately. If there's interest out there I can edit what comes
in and repost it all in one go.
In hopes that you can help us, here then is our basic situation:
We practice four times a week in a hospital gym that is used for other
purposes. Therefore mats have to be put down and taken up for each
practice. We don't have the option of building a frame around our mat
area and streaching canvas over the top. The gym floor is hardwood
parquet laid on concrete.
At present we are using sheets of approx. 3' X 10' X 1'' white insulting
foam permanently (sic) duct taped together so that they can be folded up
and put away. 4 of these taped together folding units with a canvas sheet
taped on top give us a practice area of approx. 40' X 40'. I'm told that
they will cost between 3 and 4 grand (Canadian) to replace.
The option that looks best to me is to go with judo mats of the 1 X 2
meter variety. The ones I've seen and liked are high density foam, with
an imitation tatami mat grass surface and a no slip mesh underside.
We need advice about relative quality of brands, cost, sources of supply, and
all that dumb obvious sort of stuff vis a vis the various options.
TIA for whatever help and wisdom you can offer us.
Amor e Luz, Michael
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-----M i c h a e l------ag280@chebucto.ns.ca--------------
C o n n o r----------------------------------------
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The replies
From GSAFL@CUVMC.AIS.COLUMBIA.EDUThu Nov 21 09:55:40 1996
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:30:47 -0400
From: Fred Little
To: Michael Connor
Subject: Re: Mat info please
On Thu, 14 Nov 1996 13:30:51 -0400 you said:
>
>At present we are using sheets of approx. 3' X 10' X 1'' white insulting foam
>permanently (sic) duct taped together so that they can be folded up and put
>away. 4 of these taped together with a canvas sheet taped on top give us a
>practice area of approx. 40' X 40'. I'm told that they will cost between 3
>and 4 grand (Canadian) to replace.
If you use poly-lam (I just used it for a seminar last August, then installed
it in the dojo) you should pay from $33 to $40 (US) per 4' x 8' x 1.5" sheet.
That should cost you betwee $1650 and $2000 (US). (Figuring 50 sheets)
I got mine from (no joke) Acme Foam Company in Brooklyn NY.
>The ones I've seen and liked are high density foam, with
>an imitation tatami mat grass surface and a no slip mesh underside.
These are great for practice if you can afford them. Though I must confess to
unkind thoughts when made to sit seiza for long periods on them. They conform
to the foot very well, and it gets a bit less than comfy.
Good luck!
Fred Little
Palisades Aikido Club
Palisades New York
From murray@INDIGO2.SCRI.FSU.EDUThu Nov 21 09:56:00 1996
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:41:21 -0400
From: "John R. Murray"
Reply to: Aikido List
To: Multiple recipients of list AIKIDO-L
Subject: Re: Mat info please
>From: Michael Connor
>At present we are using sheets of approx. 3' X 10' X 1'' white insulting foam
>permanently (sic) duct taped together so that they can be folded up and put
>away. 4 of these taped together with a canvas sheet taped on top give us a
>practice area of approx. 40' X 40'. I'm told that they will cost between 3
>and 4 grand (Canadian) to replace.
Actually, somewhere (I think here on Aikido-L) I saw someone mention that they
recently built a mat using a generic Ethafoam knockoff, for something like
$30-35 for 4' by 8' by (maybe) 1" sections. That's roughly $1 a square foot,
so your 40x40 (1600 sq. ft.) would cost around $1600. If the person that
mentioned this price isn't listening right now (if you are, could you mention
your supplier?), I'll go see if I can find the message in the archives.
(oh, and you'd better check your measurements! 3'x10' times 4 doesn't equal
40'x40' - unless you're counting an awful lot of very hard uncovered floor! :-)
>The option that looks best to me is to go with judo mats of the 1 X 2
>meter variety. The ones I've seen and liked are high density foam, with
>an imitation tatami mat grass surface and a no slip mesh underside.
Haven't priced them, but I hear that these are *very* expensive.
--
John R. Murray murray@indigo2.scri.fsu.edu
http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~murray/
FSU Aikido Club/North Florida Aikikai
Home of Miko's Aikido MPEGs and the Tallahassee,
FL WWW Aikido online calendar of events
- Reality is the murder of a beautiful theory by a gang of ugly facts -
From ejtt@mail.snider.netThu Nov 21 09:56:25 1996
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 02:00:39 -0400
From: Ed Thibedeau
To: ag280@CHEBUCTO.NS.CA
Subject: Mat Cost
I am in a similar situation. Looking to leave our present dojo, which is
a gymnastics floor. I would appreciate all info on cost, etc.
I have worked out several times on the Swain tatami and the Norris
tatami sold by Leninger. They are both very similar. I do judo and take
some hard falls. Both of these brands are very hard. You can fall OK but
you need to be prepared to do hard breakfalls.
I have heard that both brands now have some sort of spring board or
layer to put under the mats. I requested info from Norris in France but
haven't gotten an answer yet.
From sigestre@JUNO.COMThu Nov 21 09:56:37 1996
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 09:23:42 -0400
From: michael s schmidt
Reply to: Aikido List
To: Multiple recipients of list AIKIDO-L
Subject: Re: Mat info please
Our dojo recently purchased the "Swain" flooring systems, advertised on
back of many ATM magazines. Everyone in the dojo seems real pleased, as
we have Shotokan, Aikido, Ken-jutsu classes using the mat. They are 1 x 2
meter portable.
(not at the same time, could be quite a shish-ka-bob).
The folks at Swain were all very helpful, sent grid patterns and advice
for off-site transport, such as demonstrations, etc...
I've heard some were not pleased with the fooring, though they were
laying over carpet, which conflicts with the mat's "anti-slip" bottom.
Best of luck
From GSAFL@CUVMC.AIS.COLUMBIA.EDUThu Nov 21 09:56:47 1996
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 10:18:52 -0400
From: Fred Little
Reply to: Aikido List
To: Multiple recipients of list AIKIDO-L
Subject: Re: Mat info please
Hi all.
The product was Poly-Lam.
The supplier was Acme Foam, 900 Dean Street, Brooklyn, NY, 718/622-5600.
The cost varies from $33-40/sheet for a 4'x8' sheet.
We've been using it for four months now. No subfloor, right over concrete.
I'm happy thus far.
Enjoy!
Fred Little
Palisades Aikido Club
FRED LITTLE * * DEPARTMENTAL ADMINISTRATOR
GSAFL@CUVMC.COLUMBIA.EDU * * * SCHOOL OF GENERAL STUDIES
FAL5@COLUMBIA.EDU * 408H LEWISOHN HALL
PH: 212/854-6319 * * * COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY
FX: 212/854-6316 * * NEW YORK, NY 10027
From JG1040@AOL.COMThu Nov 21 09:57:12 1996
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 14:58:21 -0400
From: John Glinatsis
Reply to: Aikido List
To: Multiple recipients of list AIKIDO-L
Subject: Re: Mat info please
In a message dated 96-11-14 16:43:55 EST, you write:
>The option that looks best to me is to go with judo mats of the 1 X 2
>meter variety. The ones I've seen and liked are high density foam, with
>an imitation tatami mat grass surface and a no slip mesh underside.
Haven't priced them, but I hear that these are *very* expensive.
YES, They run $160 dollars for one mat, but they are well worth the bread and
the grade to get is the hard, not medium its the best.
We got ours from Swain company and they are the same ones that Hiroshi Ikeda
Sensei has at the Colorado dojo and Saotome sensei uses them in D.C., at our
dojo, and at the still under construction dojo at his ranch which houses the
Shrine to O-Sensei.
Mocha
Sarasota Aikikai ASU
From chasfr@BBS.CRUZIO.COMThu Nov 21 09:57:37 1996
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 02:48:25 -0400
From: Charles Ruhe
Reply to: Aikido List
To: Multiple recipients of list AIKIDO-L
Subject: Re: Mat info please
Just chiming in to endorse the expensive Swain mats. Our new mats at
North Bay are these, and they are excellent--firm enough for secure
footing, yet soft enough to soak up a hard fall.
Charles
========================================================================
Charles Ruhe | Creator of the CyberBow (tm) icon:
chasfr@cruzio.com | _S\o_ All rights relinquished.
=======================================================================
From liesekl@speakeasy.orgThu Nov 21 09:58:00 1996
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 16:39:11 -0400
From: Liese Klien
To: Michael Connor
Subject: Re: Mat info please
those tatami-type mats are nice, but watch out for a French company
selling them at what sounds like a great price - they've sold some poor
quality stuff to dojos recently. If you've got the money, get the
top-quality stuff.
From jeffh@nol.netThu Nov 21 09:58:09 1996
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:57:35 -0400
From: jeffh
To: Michael Connor
Subject: Re: Mat Info Please
You can find out how we made our mats (I have given this out several
times) at:
http://www.nol.net/~jeffh/aikiclub/aikiclub/docs/mats.htm
Enjoy!
-jeffh
--
jeffh@nol.net
http://www.nol.net/~jeffh/
My statements are my own opinions and not necessarily
that of my provider, employer, or any living person...
From: Private E-mail
To: ag280@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: Honbu Dojo is special.
[The following text is in the "iso-2022-jp" character set]
[Your display is set for the "US-ASCII" character set]
[Some characters may be displayed incorrectly]
Dear Michael,
I asked Mr. Osawa (Honbu Dojo shihan=sensei) about Tatami Mats yesterday.
He explained that Honbu Dojo has special tatami mats. It is very hard to
get these mats even in Japan. Budokan looks using a Judo Tatami Mats.
They are maid of tightly woven straw and covered with vinyle instead of
"igusa"(=woven rushes). He also told me that gum mats, which are colored
like real tatami mats, must be used in International Judo Competition.
The gum mats are popular overseas.
From bates@ARL.MILFri Dec 6 10:05:33 1996
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:17:10 -0400
From: "Harry E. Bates (TED|ETB)"
Reply to: Aikido List
To: Multiple recipients of list AIKIDO-L
Subject: Re: Mat info please
In reference to the Swain mats, what are the various surfaces that they
can be placed upon (hardwood, concrete, carpet grade, etc.)?
-Harry
From 102123.311@COMPUSERVE.COMFri Dec 6 10:05:50 1996
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 16:48:13 -0400
From: Patrick Lynch <102123.311@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Reply to: Aikido List
To: Multiple recipients of list AIKIDO-L
Subject: Mat info please
>In reference to the Swain mats, what are the various surfaces that they
>can be placed upon (hardwood, concrete, carpet grade, etc.)?
Concrete is fine, but the company recommends that you buy (reasonably cheap)
their additional polypropylene padding to put under the mats. This may only by
necessary for the Judoka out there. The Ukemi they have to take is a "little"
harder that what's common in Aikido.
I have mine on Hardwood floors, and that works just fine. Of course they're in
the basement, so I don't have to worry about crashing through the floor.
One note of caution: although the mats come with "Gripping" rubber soles, I
would recommend putting a border around to hold them together. Especially on
carpet (tried this), the gripping soles don't work well, and the mats start to
slide apart during vigorous practice.
- Patrick Lynch
From PrecursorS@AOL.COMFri Dec 6 10:06:05 1996
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 22:31:51 -0400
From: Aviv Goldsmith
Reply to: Aikido List
To: Multiple recipients of list AIKIDO-L
Subject: Mat info
We just enhanced our mat with 1" of Oletex 3lb. density foam. We shopped
around alot for competing materials and prices including the much-mentioned
Ethafoam ($1.49 - $2.19 per sq. ft.) and the never-did-find-elusive Polylam.
This Oletex stuff seemed to work out the best for us -- it was $1.05 per sq.
foot and comes in rolls 5' wide by 100' long. The supplier was McCullough
Co. Talk to Stan Meretsky at (810) 646-6195, tell him that we sent you. He
also has other materials.
For additional info about our procurement, feel free to call Lara at (702)
323-2866.
Peace, Aviv Goldsmith
Reno Aikido Co-Op
Once again Thanks to everyone.
Cheers, Michael
Created Dec. 5, 1996