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--Boundary_(ID_/mLEoEomh0Jw5iyvbEEuEw)
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Hi All, Oct 3, 2010
This unusual wasp behavior reminds me of ants responding to =
installation of urea-formaldhyde foam insulation some years ago (1976 =
?).
Shortly after the foam was pumped into the wall cavities of the =
livingroom, live ants carrying dead or immobile ants began to crawl from =
chinks in the window casement onto the indoor windowsill. The dead or =
immobile ants were then placed side by side in a row (~30 to 50); a =
micro re-enactment of the Atlanta scene from Gone With the Wind.
=20
Yt, Dave Webster, Kentville
----- Original Message -----=20
From: andy dean=20
To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca=20
Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 9:02 PM
Subject: Re: [NatureNS] Wasp question
That is all very fascinating....but nobody seems to be able to answer =
the more intriguing
( to us ) question....why did the two wasps fly off with dead ones?
Andy and Lelia Dean
86 Baden Powell Drive
Kentville, N.S.
(902) 678-6243
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Paul S. Boyer=20
To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca=20
Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: [NatureNS] Wasp question
We often hear this said about insects and how strong they are.=20
I suspect that the main reason insects seem so strong is merely the =
scale factor. If ants are so mighty, why are there no really large ants =
around? Clearly, there is a scale factor which limits their size. It =
is not possible to build a viable ant larger than a certain size.
I cannot find any reference proving that ant muscles are actually =
stronger by weight than muscles in other creatures. Who knows? It =
might be interesting to find out. But it seems to me that the relative =
strength of a muscle is roughly proportional to its cross-sectional =
area. As one scales up the size of a muscle, the volume increases as =
the cube of the linear dimension, but the cross-sectional area only as =
the square. So a bigger animal will have trouble keeping up =
proportionate strength as it gets larger.
We could see this in a jumping contest. I have seen a wild Norway =
Rat leap laterally about 3 m, which is many times (perhaps x15) his =
length. A human Olympic athlete can't jump proportionally so far; and a =
bear (strong as he seems to us) is even a shorter jumper. And they say =
that an elephant is totally unable to jump at all!
Thus in a weight-lifting contest where the load is calculated as a =
multiple of the contestant=92s body weight, the small animals (other =
things being equal) should win. Insects, of course, are not formed at =
all like vertebrates, and in their size range an exoskeleton could have =
many advantages. Exoskeletons do not work at all in our size range, =
which is why there are not any really gigantic insects (except in our =
nightmares, or in sci-fi movies).
Similarly, we cannot scale humans down to ant size, and there are no =
mammals with that tiny an adult size.
Birds are another great example of scaling. Most birds are small. =
Only a few get very large, and as they do, they have more and more =
trouble taking off. The largest cannot fly at all.
So, whenever we hear that a certain insect has remarkable abilities =
at lifting weight or jumping, we should be impressed =97 but not too =
much, for they are in a size range which puts them in a different league =
from us mammals. Then if we can figure out the importance of the size =
factor in biomechanics, we will really be getting somewhere in =
understanding how different creatures work.
On 25 Sep 2010, at 4:25 PM, D W Bridgehouse wrote:
Since wasps , bees and ants are lumped into same order of =
Hymenoptera its also interesting that ants can carry items 10 =96 50 =
times their own body weight.Ants are small but they are very strong for =
their size. If you were that strong you could lift an automobile. The =
ants carry or drag heavy loads for food back to their nests. The food =
may be parts of plants or bits of dead animals.
More food for thought J
From: naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca =
[mailto:naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca] On Behalf Of andy dean
Sent: September-25-10 12:57 PM
To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: [NatureNS] Wasp question
Attention of any budding or professional entyologists in the =
group.
One morning recently my wife and I discovered about 50 dead wasps =
on the garage floor , just inside the door, and attributed it to a =
natural 'end-of-season' phenomenon....does that seem correct?
More bemusing was the fact that whilst we sat with the garage =
door open, drinking our morning coffee, we twice witnessed a wasp fly in =
and after examining a corpse lift it and fly off with it.....anybody =
know what that was all about?
It was mind-boggling to realize that the weight of the corpse =
in relation to the live wasp would have been the equivalent of me =
lifting my wife bodily off the ground and flying off with her ......a =
sobering thought !
Andy and Lelia Dean
86 Baden Powell Drive
Kentville, N.S.
(902) 678-6243
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20
Version: 9.0.856 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3171 - Release Date: =
10/01/10 15:34:00
--Boundary_(ID_/mLEoEomh0Jw5iyvbEEuEw)
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Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dwindows-1252" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><BASE=20
href=3D"x-msg://40/">
<META name=3DGENERATOR content=3D"MSHTML 8.00.6001.18939">
<STYLE></STYLE>
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<BODY=20
style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space"=20
bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Hi All, =20
Oct 3, 2010</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2> This unusual wasp behavior =
reminds me of=20
ants responding to installation of urea-formaldhyde foam insulation some =
years=20
ago (1976 ?).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2> Shortly after the foam was pumped =
into the=20
wall cavities of the livingroom, live ants carrying dead or immobile =
ants began=20
to crawl from chinks in the window casement onto the indoor windowsill. =
The dead=20
or immobile ants were then placed side by side in a row (~30 to 50); a =
micro=20
re-enactment of the Atlanta scene from Gone With the Wind.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Yt, Dave Webster, Kentville</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Daadean@ns.sympatico.ca =
href=3D"mailto:aadean@ns.sympatico.ca">andy=20
dean</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dnaturens@chebucto.ns.ca=20
href=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca">naturens@chebucto.ns.ca</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, October 02, =
2010 9:02=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NatureNS] Wasp=20
question</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>That is all very fascinating....but =
nobody seems=20
to be able to answer the more intriguing</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial> ( to us ) question....why =
did the two=20
wasps fly off with dead ones?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Andy and Lelia Dean<BR>86 Baden =
Powell=20
Drive<BR>Kentville, N.S.<BR>(902) 678-6243<BR></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20
dir=3Dltr>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dpsboyer@eastlink.ca =
href=3D"mailto:psboyer@eastlink.ca">Paul S.=20
Boyer</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dnaturens@chebucto.ns.ca=20
href=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca">naturens@chebucto.ns.ca</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, October 02, =
2010 8:49=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NatureNS] Wasp=20
question</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>We often hear this said about insects and how strong =
they=20
are.=20
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I suspect that the main reason insects <I>seem</I> so strong is =
merely=20
the scale factor. If ants are so mighty, why are there no =
really large=20
ants around? Clearly, there is a scale factor which limits =
their size.=20
It is not possible to build a viable ant larger than a certain =
size.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I cannot find any reference proving that ant muscles are =
actually=20
stronger by weight than muscles in other creatures. Who knows? =
It might be interesting to find out. But it seems to me =
that the=20
relative strength of a muscle is roughly proportional to its =
cross-sectional=20
area. As one scales up the size of a muscle, the volume =
increases as=20
the cube of the linear dimension, but the cross-sectional area only =
as the=20
square. So a bigger animal will have trouble keeping up =
proportionate=20
strength as it gets larger.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>We could see this in a jumping contest. I have seen a =
wild Norway=20
Rat leap laterally about 3 m, which is many times (perhaps x15) his =
length.=20
A human Olympic athlete can't jump proportionally so far; and =
a bear=20
(strong as he seems to us) is even a shorter jumper. And they =
say that=20
an elephant is totally unable to jump at all!</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Thus in a weight-lifting contest where the load is calculated =
as a=20
multiple of the contestant=92s body weight, the small animals (other =
things=20
being equal) should win. Insects, of course, are not formed at =
all=20
like vertebrates, and in their size range an exoskeleton could have =
many=20
advantages. Exoskeletons do not work at all in our size range, =
which=20
is why there are not any really gigantic insects (except in our =
nightmares,=20
or in sci-fi movies).</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Similarly, we cannot scale humans down to ant size, and there =
are no=20
mammals with that tiny an adult size.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Birds are another great example of scaling. Most birds =
are small.=20
Only a few get very large, and as they do, they have more and =
more=20
trouble taking off. The largest cannot fly at all.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>So, whenever we hear that a certain insect has remarkable =
abilities at=20
lifting weight or jumping, we should be impressed =97 but not too =
much, for=20
they are in a size range which puts them in a different league from =
us=20
mammals. Then if we can figure out the importance of the =
<I>size</I>=20
factor in biomechanics, we will really be getting somewhere in =
understanding=20
how different creatures work.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On 25 Sep 2010, at 4:25 PM, D W Bridgehouse wrote:</DIV><BR=20
class=3DApple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><SPAN=20
style=3D"WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; =
BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium Times; WHITE-SPACE: normal; =
ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"=20
class=3DApple-style-span>
<DIV lang=3DEN-CA bgcolor=3D"white" link=3D"blue" =
vlink=3D"purple">
<DIV style=3D"page: WordSection1" class=3DWordSection1>
<H2=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN-LEFT: 0cm; =
FONT-SIZE: 18pt; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0cm"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-WEIGHT: normal">Since wasps , bees =
and ants=20
are lumped into same order of Hymenoptera its also interesting =
that=20
ants<SPAN style=3D"COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"><SPAN=20
class=3DApple-converted-space> </SPAN></SPAN><A=20
name=3Dants_can_carry_items_10_-_50times_their_><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black">can carry items 10 =96 50 times their own =
body=20
weight.</SPAN></A></SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-WEIGHT: normal">Ants are small but =
they are=20
very strong for their size. If you were that strong you could lift =
an=20
automobile. The ants carry or drag heavy loads for food back to =
their=20
nests. The food may be parts of plants or bits of dead=20
animals.</SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-WEIGHT: =
normal"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></H2>
<DIV=20
style=3D"MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">More=20
food for thought<SPAN =
class=3DApple-converted-space> </SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Wingdings">J</SPAN><BR><BR><O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); =
FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); =
FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; =
BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; =
BORDER-LEFT-STYLE: none; BORDER-TOP: rgb(181,196,223) 1pt solid; =
PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<DIV=20
style=3D"MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma, sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"=20
lang=3DEN-US>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma, sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" =
lang=3DEN-US><SPAN=20
class=3DApple-converted-space> </SPAN><A=20
style=3D"COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline"=20
=
href=3D"mailto:naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca">naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.=
ca</A><SPAN=20
=
class=3DApple-converted-space> </SPAN>[mailto:naturens-owner@chebuct=
o.ns.ca]<SPAN=20
class=3DApple-converted-space> </SPAN><B>On Behalf Of<SPAN=20
class=3DApple-converted-space> </SPAN></B>andy=20
dean<BR><B>Sent:</B><SPAN=20
class=3DApple-converted-space> </SPAN>September-25-10 12:57=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B><SPAN =
class=3DApple-converted-space> </SPAN><A=20
style=3D"COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline"=20
=
href=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca">naturens@chebucto.ns.ca</A><BR><B=
>Subject:</B><SPAN=20
class=3DApple-converted-space> </SPAN>[NatureNS] Wasp=20
question<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial, sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"> <SPAN=20
class=3DApple-converted-space> </SPAN><U>Attention of any =
budding or=20
professional entyologists in the =
group.</U></SPAN><O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial, sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"> One morning=20
recently my wife and I discovered about 50 dead wasps on the =
garage floor=20
, just inside the door, and attributed it to a natural =
'end-of-season'=20
phenomenon....does that seem =
correct?</SPAN><O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial, sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"> =20
More bemusing was the fact that whilst we sat with the garage door =
open, drinking our morning coffee, we twice witnessed a wasp =
fly in=20
and after examining a corpse lift it and fly off with=20
it.....anybody know what that was all =
about?</SPAN><O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial, sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: =
10pt"> =20
It was mind-boggling to realize that the weight of the corpse in =
relation=20
to the live wasp would have been the equivalent of me lifting my =
wife=20
bodily off the ground and flying off with her ......a sobering =
thought=20
!</SPAN><O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial, sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Andy and =
Lelia=20
Dean<BR>86 Baden Powell Drive<BR>Kentville, N.S.<BR>(902)=20
=
678-6243</SPAN><O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE></D=
IV><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P><BR>No virus found in this incoming message.<BR>Checked by AVG =
-=20
www.avg.com <BR>Version: 9.0.856 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3171 - =
Release=20
Date: 10/01/10 15:34:00<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
--Boundary_(ID_/mLEoEomh0Jw5iyvbEEuEw)--
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