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hi Steve - John Murtagh of ethanol fame is the fellow.
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You understand I could write a book on the fellow so it would make
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a long email. I worked with him in the 60s for about 5 years. We were wi=
th Seagrams
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and I latter went to Michelin.
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Anyway at the time, in order to convert starch to sugar, about the only =
way was with malt.
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An expensive process but it had good side effects for taste and colour o=
f the whiskey but
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much to expensive for industrial alcohol. We often sat around in the eve=
ning and drank some broken
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case vintage , We were already growing 1000 acres of corn and used it as=
cattle feed.
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The VP at the time was a farm boy from Iowa who was our main money suppo=
rt but he
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passed away suddenly and things changed.
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John went on to work in the Research department and I went to making tir=
es.
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Anyway he discovered ho to do this at a fraction of the cost of malt but=
Seagrams were little interested
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as malt had other benefits. John went on the do  several things som=
e good environmental stuff
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there also. Careers have been made famous on less.
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Then when the ethanol boom appeared he had the secret so his process was=
the one used.
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and he was on the gravy train.
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We were in New Brunswick - I think I said Maritimer but both of us visit=
ed NS often
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and he probably knew more what was happening at Kentville Research Stati=
on
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than the people who work there - afterall we were into corn, beef, bottl=
ing spirits and distilling industrial
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alcohol. A wide work load - he was the brains  I was the common sen=
se guy.
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Hope this fills you in.
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Unfortunate that he is not better known here  but people that make =
a diffrence
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never get as well known as blow hards!
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Enjoy the early winter
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Paul
<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
<br/>r, a NY lawyer, etc,... but I gave up by Google page 3, drawing a b=
lank on anyone sounding likely. 'John Murtagh Nova Scotia scientist'=
; fared no better, yielding a similar subset.
<br/>>=20
<br/>> Finally, he sounded perhaps relevant to the corn->ethanol=
debate, and googling an inspired 'John Murtagh corn ethanol' yield=
ed the bio of John E. Murtagh, an independent consultant for the ethanol in=
dustry who latterly lived in Virginia (died 2003). He was based in the fuel=
alcohol sector but also involved in beverage alcohol (Vodka in Iran of all=
places). Latterly he seems to have been mainly employed in executive advis=
ing and in rationalizing small fuel plants worldwide, and on purity issues,=
rather than in the basic science of it (though he originally was, earning =
a Ph.D. in Wales on microbial fermentation -> ethanol). I didn't se=
e anything about a 'breakthrough'. From industry comments, he was a=
pparently very highly regarded for his experience as an adviser for industr=
ial ethanol production.=20
<br/>> Steve (Hfx)
<br/>>=20
<br/>> ________________________________________
<br/>> From: naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca [naturens-owner@chebucto.=
ns.ca] on behalf of rita.paul@ns.sympatico.ca [rita.paul@ns.sympatico.ca]
<br/>> Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2014 3:12 PM
<br/>> To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca
<br/>> Subject: Re: Scope of NatureNS: Re: Long again: Re: Long: Re:=
[NatureNS] light
<br/>>=20
<br/>> =EF=BB=BF December 21, 2014 at 1:37 PM David & Alison Web=
ster <dwebster@glinx.com> wrote:
<br/>> Hi Dave
<br/>> I take it your education has been somewhat lacking.
<br/>> but I guess government so called scientists don't get out=
much!
<br/>> Enjoy the holidays
<br/>> Paul
<br/>> Hi Paul,
<br/>> My enigma machine is down so the thrust of your post is not c=
lear. I have never heard of John Murtagh so you must know my nephew who has=
never heard of him either.
<br/>>=20
<br/>> Corn to ethanol was promoted as a carbon neutral fuel and, if=
produced using manure, elbow grease and ox or horse power then perhaps it =
gets close to that. But when it is produced using the intensive inputs of i=
ndustrial agriculture then the overall system generates more carbon emissio=
n than use of petrochemicals without ethanol. And the subsidized ethanol fu=
el market resulted in less food corn production, higher food prices and har=
dship for those with a traditional diet high in corn.
<br/>>=20
<br/>> And I object to the insinuation that I selectively support on=
ly ideas generated by government employees because that is 100% off base. I=
judge ideas on merit not origin.
<br/>>=20
<br/>> I do however strongly support the value of Government funded =
science provided it is entirely free of pressure, especially political pres=
sure. That resource in needed to keep industry somewhat honest and to act a=
s an advisory source for government. A large amount in industrial research =
in the US is (or has been) actually funded by government to mutual advantag=
e.
<br/>>=20
<br/>> Yt, Dave Webster, Kentville.
<br/>> ----- Original Message -----
<br/>> From: rita.paul@ns.sympatico.ca<mailto:rita.paul@ns.sympa=
tico.ca>
<br/>> To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca<mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.c=
a>
<br/>> Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2014 12:09 PM
<br/>> Subject: Re: Scope of NatureNS: Re: Long again: Re: Long: Re:=
[NatureNS] light
<br/>>=20
<br/>> Interesting Dave
<br/>> You say =EF=BB=BF corn to alcohol initiative was a disaster!
<br/>> and then go on to say "But all to often some anticipated =
negative effect is enough to derail a undertaking that on balance would be =
very beneficial."
<br/>> Seems to me that is what you want to do with the ethanol init=
iative.
<br/>> Not many folks will recognize John Murtagh - a maritimer by c=
hoice for a few years.
<br/>> One of the Maritimes leading scientists - I was lucky enough =
to work for
<br/>> him before his breakthrough and that's not so long ago an=
d now you want
<br/>> to throw it out? I understand - he didn't work for the go=
vernment!
<br/>> Enjoy early winter
<br/>> Paul
<br/>> On December 21, 2014 at 10:12 AM David & Alison Webster &=
#60;dwebster@glinx.com> wrote:
<br/>>=20
<br/>> Hi Fred, Dec 21, 2014
<br/>> Good intentions have a way of goings astray; no doubt about t=
hat.
<br/>>=20
<br/>> Mandated targets for biodiesel e.g. led to rapid expansion of=
the tropical Palm Oil industry with ghastly human and environmental conseq=
uences. The corn to alcohol initiative in the US is another disaster.
<br/>>=20
<br/>> Tinkering with any complex system generates a need for rapid =
feedback and control so unforseen adverse consequences can be nipped in the=
bud. Otherwise an initiative will fly like one of Goddard's early rock=
ets; squirm around until propulsion and gravity are acting in the same dire=
ction. Or in other words follow the course of least resistance.
<br/>>=20
<br/>> Ideally one would apply resistance so action combines maximum=
positive effects with minimum negative. But all to often some anticipated =
negative effect is enough to derail a undertaking that on balance would be =
very beneficial.
<br/>>=20
<br/>> Yt, Dave Webster, Kentville
<br/>>=20
<br/>>=20
<br/>> .
<br/>> ----- Original Message -----
<br/>> From: Fred Schueler<mailto:bckcdb@istar.ca>
<br/>> To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca<mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.c=
a>
<br/>> Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2014 9:00 PM
<br/>> Subject: Re: Scope of NatureNS: Re: Long again: Re: Long: Re:=
[NatureNS] light
<br/>>=20
<br/>>=20
<br/>> On 12/20/2014 6:33 PM, David & Alison Webster wrote:
<br/>>=20
<br/>> Opposition to wind generation has often come strangely enough=
from Naturalists; organizations or individuals. This was helped I expect b=
y a famous site in California that was set in a raptor migration channel in=
a mountain pass by, what a concidence, a Petrochemical Company.
<br/>>=20
<br/>> * experience in Ontario has been that these "green" e=
nergy projects are often put in by ecologically insensitive firms, promptin=
g the new provincial motto of Ontario "green is black." http://www.=
saveostranderpoint.org/#sthash.LufTSMYD.dpbs is a tale of a wind farm in an=
"important bird area" where the Ministry of the Environment joined=
the "proponent's" appeal of a decision that the project posed =
an unacceptable risk to a SAR, and the whole basis of the Ontario Rivers Al=
liance http://www.ontarioriversalliance.ca/ was "green is black" me=
soscale hydro projects that were to be blotted all across the norther part =
of the province - http://karstaddailypaintings.blogspot.ca/2012/10/precious=
-wild-rivers-calendar-for-2013.html - see my comments. Another instance of =
this single-purpose insensitivity is the solar farms that are put in with n=
o concern for Species at Risk that might be encouraged to live among the pa=
nels.
<br/>>=20
<br/>> Just as is the case with massive certified-organic agricultur=
e, if we're going to have green infrastructure it must be green all the=
way down - which will require substantial re-education of the industrial/f=
inancial sorts - it's not enough that politicians respond to the need t=
o make alternative sources of energy useable - these installations must be =
installed with ecological sensitivity to the local sites, and in consultati=
on with the local Human population.
<br/>>=20
<br/>> fred.
<br/>>=20
<br/>> --
<br/>> ------------------------------------------------------------
<br/>> Frederick W. Schueler & Aleta Karstad
<br/>> Daily Paintings - http://karstaddailypaintings.blogspot.com/
<br/>> Vulnerable Watersheds - http://vulnerablewaters.blogspot.ca/
<br/>> Mudpuppy Night in Oxford Mills - http://pinicola.ca/mudpup1.h=
tm
<br/>> RR#2 Bishops Mills, Ontario, Canada K0G 1T0
<br/>> on the Smiths Falls Limestone Plain 44* 52'N 75* 42'W
<br/>> (613)258-3107 <bckcdb at istar.ca> http://pinicola.ca=
/
<br/>> ------------------------------------------------------------
<br/>>=20
<br/>>=20
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