[NatureNS] Re: Scope of NatureNS: Re: Long again: Re: Long: Re:

From: David & Alison Webster <dwebster@glinx.com>
To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca
References: <tmulxsotibavpq8c1yqbtncf.1419204528207@email.android.com>
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2014 19:41:04 -0400
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Hi Jim,
    Cut from welcome to naturens--
    If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list,
you can send mail to <majordomo@chebucto.ns.ca> with the following
command in the body of your email message:

    unsubscribe naturens=20
Leave the subject line blank.

    Are you heading south for a while or fed up with recent traffic ?=20
Yt, DW
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: jim.edsall=20
  To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca=20
  Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2014 7:29 PM
  Subject: [NatureNS] Re: Scope of NatureNS: Re: Long again: Re: Long: =
Re: [NatureNS] light


  How does one unsubscribe from this list?








  Jim Edsall
  Check out my new website at http://jimedsall.com



  -------- Original message --------
  From: rita.paul@ns.sympatico.ca=20
  Date: 12-21-2014 3:12 PM (GMT-04:00)=20
  To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca=20
  Subject: Re: Scope of NatureNS: Re: Long again: Re: Long: Re: =
[NatureNS] light=20



  =EF=BB=BF  December 21, 2014 at 1:37 PM David & Alison Webster =
<dwebster@glinx.com> wrote:=20
  Hi Dave=20
  I take it your education has been somewhat lacking.=20
  but I guess government so called scientists don't get out much!=20
  Enjoy the holidays=20
  Paul=20
    Hi Paul,=20
        My enigma machine is down so the thrust of your post is not =
clear. I have never heard of John Murtagh so you must know my nephew who =
has never heard of him either.=20
       =20
        Corn to ethanol was promoted as a carbon neutral fuel and, if =
produced using manure, elbow grease and ox or horse power then perhaps =
it gets close to that. But when it is produced using the intensive =
inputs of industrial agriculture then the overall system generates more =
carbon emission than use of petrochemicals without ethanol. And the =
subsidized ethanol fuel market resulted in less food corn production, =
higher food prices and hardship for those with a traditional diet high =
in corn.=20
    =20
        And I object to the insinuation that I selectively support only =
ideas generated by government employees because that is 100% off base. I =
judge ideas on merit not origin.=20
    =20
        I do however strongly support the value of Government funded =
science provided it is entirely free of pressure, especially political =
pressure. That resource in needed to keep industry somewhat honest and =
to act as an advisory source for government. A large amount in =
industrial research in the US is (or has been) actually funded by =
government to mutual advantage.=20
    =20
    Yt, Dave Webster, Kentville.=20
      ----- Original Message -----=20
      From: rita.paul@ns.sympatico.ca=20
      To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca=20
      Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2014 12:09 PM=20
      Subject: Re: Scope of NatureNS: Re: Long again: Re: Long: Re: =
[NatureNS] light=20
      =20
      Interesting Dave=20
      You say =EF=BB=BF corn to alcohol initiative was a disaster!=20
      and then go on to say "But all to often some anticipated negative =
effect is enough to derail a undertaking that on balance would be very =
beneficial."=20
      Seems to me that is what you want to do with the ethanol =
initiative.=20
      Not many folks will recognize John Murtagh - a maritimer by choice =
for a few years.=20
      One of the Maritimes leading scientists - I was lucky enough to =
work for=20
      him before his breakthrough and that's not so long ago and now you =
want=20
      to throw it out? I understand - he didn't work for the government! =

      Enjoy early winter=20
      Paul=20
        On December 21, 2014 at 10:12 AM David & Alison Webster =
<dwebster@glinx.com> wrote:=20


        Hi Fred,                                    Dec 21, 2014=20
            Good intentions have a way of goings astray; no doubt about =
that.=20
        =20
            Mandated targets for biodiesel e.g. led to rapid expansion =
of the tropical Palm Oil industry with ghastly human and environmental =
consequences. The corn to alcohol initiative in the US is another =
disaster.=20
        =20
            Tinkering with any complex system generates a need for rapid =
feedback and control so unforseen adverse consequences can be nipped in =
the bud. Otherwise an initiative will fly like one of Goddard's early =
rockets; squirm around until propulsion and gravity are acting in the =
same direction. Or in other words follow the course of least resistance. =

        =20
            Ideally one would apply resistance so action combines =
maximum positive effects with minimum negative. But all to often some =
anticipated negative effect is enough to derail a undertaking that on =
balance would be very beneficial.=20
        =20
           Yt, Dave Webster, Kentville=20
           =20
        =20
            .=20
          ----- Original Message -----=20
          From: Fred Schueler=20
          To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca=20
          Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2014 9:00 PM=20
          Subject: Re: Scope of NatureNS: Re: Long again: Re: Long: Re: =
[NatureNS] light=20
          =20


          On 12/20/2014 6:33 PM, David & Alison Webster wrote:=20
            =20
                Opposition to wind generation has often come strangely =
enough from Naturalists; organizations or individuals. This was helped I =
expect by a famous site in California that was set in a raptor migration =
channel in a mountain pass by, what a concidence, a Petrochemical =
Company.=20

          * experience in Ontario has been that these "green" energy =
projects are often put in by ecologically insensitive firms, prompting =
the new provincial motto of Ontario "green is black." =
http://www.saveostranderpoint.org/#sthash.LufTSMYD.dpbs is a tale of a =
wind farm in an "important bird area" where the Ministry of the =
Environment joined the "proponent's" appeal of a decision that the =
project posed an unacceptable risk to a SAR, and the whole basis of the =
Ontario Rivers Alliance http://www.ontarioriversalliance.ca/ was "green =
is black" mesoscale hydro projects that were to be blotted all across =
the norther part of the province - =
http://karstaddailypaintings.blogspot.ca/2012/10/precious-wild-rivers-cal=
endar-for-2013.html - see my comments. Another instance of this =
single-purpose insensitivity is the solar farms that are put in with no =
concern for Species at Risk that might be encouraged to live among the =
panels.=20

          Just as is the case with massive certified-organic =
agriculture, if we're going to have green infrastructure it must be =
green all the way down - which will require substantial re-education of =
the industrial/financial sorts - it's not enough that politicians =
respond to the need to make alternative sources of energy useable - =
these installations must be installed with ecological sensitivity to the =
local sites, and in consultation with the local Human population.=20

          fred.=20

--=20
------------------------------------------------------------
          Frederick W. Schueler & Aleta Karstad
Daily Paintings - http://karstaddailypaintings.blogspot.com/
Vulnerable Watersheds - http://vulnerablewaters.blogspot.ca/
Mudpuppy Night in Oxford Mills - http://pinicola.ca/mudpup1.htm
    RR#2 Bishops Mills, Ontario, Canada K0G 1T0
   on the Smiths Falls Limestone Plain 44* 52'N 75* 42'W
    (613)258-3107 <bckcdb at istar.ca> http://pinicola.ca/
------------------------------------------------------------
No virus found in this message.
          Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
          Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4253/8775 - Release =
Date: 12/20/14


       =20
      No virus found in this message.
      Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
      Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4253/8778 - Release Date: =
12/21/14


   =20
  No virus found in this message.
  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
  Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4253/8781 - Release Date: =
12/21/14

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<DIV>Hi Jim,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Cut from welcome to naturens--</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; If you ever want to remove yourself from this =
mailing=20
list,<BR>you can send mail to &lt;<A =
href=3D"">majordomo@chebucto.ns.ca</A>&gt;=20
with the following<BR>command in the body of your email=20
message:<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; unsubscribe naturens </DIV>
<DIV>Leave the subject line blank.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Are you heading south for a while or fed up with =
recent=20
traffic ? </DIV>
<DIV>Yt, DW</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20
dir=3Dltr>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Djim.edsall@bellaliant.net=20
  href=3D"mailto:jim.edsall@bellaliant.net">jim.edsall</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dnaturens@chebucto.ns.ca=20
  href=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca">naturens@chebucto.ns.ca</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, December 21, 2014 =
7:29=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [NatureNS] Re: Scope =
of=20
  NatureNS: Re: Long again: Re: Long: Re: [NatureNS] light</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV>How does one unsubscribe from this list?</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 100%">Jim Edsall<BR>Check out my new website =
at <A=20
  =
href=3D"http://jimedsall.com">http://jimedsall.com</A></DIV></DIV><BR><BR=
><BR>--------=20
  Original message --------<BR>From: <A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:rita.paul@ns.sympatico.ca">rita.paul@ns.sympatico.ca</A>=20
  <BR>Date: 12-21-2014 3:12 PM (GMT-04:00) <BR>To: <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca">naturens@chebucto.ns.ca</A> =
<BR>Subject:=20
  Re: Scope of NatureNS: Re: Long again: Re: Long: Re: [NatureNS] light=20
  <BR><BR><BR>
  <DIV>=EF=BB=BF&nbsp; <STRONG>December 21, 2014 at 1:37 PM David &amp; =
Alison Webster=20
  &lt;dwebster@glinx.com&gt; wrote:</STRONG> <BR>Hi Dave </DIV>
  <DIV>I take it your education has been somewhat lacking. </DIV>
  <DIV>but I guess government so called scientists don't get out much! =
</DIV>
  <DIV>Enjoy the holidays </DIV>
  <DIV>Paul </DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"POSITION: relative; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1px solid; =
PADDING-LEFT: 10px; MARGIN-LEFT: 0px"=20
  type=3D"cite">
    <DIV><STRONG>Hi Paul,</STRONG> </DIV>
    <DIV><STRONG>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; My enigma machine is down so the =
thrust of=20
    your post is not clear. I have never heard of John Murtagh so you =
must know=20
    my nephew who has never heard of him either.</STRONG> </DIV>
    <DIV><STRONG>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</STRONG> </DIV>
    <DIV><STRONG>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Corn to ethanol was promoted as a =
carbon=20
    neutral fuel and, if produced using manure, elbow grease and ox or =
horse=20
    power then perhaps it gets close to that. But when it is produced =
using the=20
    intensive inputs of industrial agriculture then the overall system =
generates=20
    more carbon emission&nbsp;than use of petrochemicals without =
ethanol. And=20
    the subsidized ethanol fuel market resulted in less food corn =
production,=20
    higher food prices and hardship for those with a traditional diet =
high in=20
    corn.</STRONG> </DIV>
    <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
    <DIV><STRONG>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; And I object to the insinuation that =
I=20
    selectively support only ideas generated by government employees =
because=20
    that is 100% off base. I judge ideas on merit not origin.</STRONG> =
</DIV>
    <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
    <DIV><STRONG>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I do however strongly support the =
value of=20
    Government funded science provided it is entirely free of pressure,=20
    especially political pressure. That resource in needed to keep =
industry=20
    somewhat honest and to act as an advisory source for =
government.&nbsp;A=20
    large amount in industrial research in the US&nbsp;is (or has=20
    been)&nbsp;actually funded by government to mutual =
advantage.</STRONG>=20
</DIV>
    <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
    <DIV><STRONG>Yt, Dave Webster, Kentville.</STRONG> </DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE=20
    style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV=20
      style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: =
normal"><STRONG>-----=20
      Original Message -----</STRONG> </DIV>
      <DIV=20
      style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-size-adjust: =
none; font-stretch: normal; font-color: black"><STRONG>From:=20
      <A=20
      =
href=3D"mailto:rita.paul@ns.sympatico.ca">rita.paul@ns.sympatico.ca</A></=
STRONG>=20
      </DIV>
      <DIV=20
      style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: =
normal"><STRONG>To:=20
      <A=20
      =
href=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca">naturens@chebucto.ns.ca</A></STRO=
NG>=20
      </DIV>
      <DIV=20
      style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: =
normal"><STRONG>Sent:=20
      Sunday, December 21, 2014 12:09 PM</STRONG> </DIV>
      <DIV=20
      style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: =
normal"><STRONG>Subject:=20
      Re: Scope of NatureNS: Re: Long again: Re: Long: Re: [NatureNS]=20
      light</STRONG> </DIV>
      <DIV> </DIV>
      <DIV><STRONG>Interesting Dave</STRONG> </DIV>
      <DIV><STRONG>You say =EF=BB=BF corn to alcohol initiative was a =
disaster!</STRONG>=20
      </DIV>
      <DIV><STRONG>and then go on to say "But all to often some =
anticipated=20
      negative effect is enough to derail a undertaking that on balance =
would be=20
      very beneficial."</STRONG> </DIV>
      <DIV><STRONG>Seems to me that is what you want to do with the =
ethanol=20
      initiative.</STRONG> </DIV>
      <DIV><STRONG>Not many folks will recognize John Murtagh - a =
maritimer by=20
      choice for a few years.</STRONG> </DIV>
      <DIV><STRONG>One of the Maritimes leading scientists - I was lucky =
enough=20
      to work for</STRONG> </DIV>
      <DIV><STRONG>him before his breakthrough and that's not so long =
ago and=20
      now you want</STRONG> </DIV>
      <DIV><STRONG>to throw it out? I understand - he didn't work for =
the=20
      government!</STRONG> </DIV>
      <DIV><STRONG>Enjoy early winter</STRONG> </DIV>
      <DIV><STRONG>Paul</STRONG> </DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE=20
      style=3D"POSITION: relative; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1px solid; =
PADDING-LEFT: 10px; MARGIN-LEFT: 0px"=20
      type=3D"cite"><STRONG>On December 21, 2014 at 10:12 AM David &amp; =
Alison=20
        Webster &lt;dwebster@glinx.com&gt; wrote: </STRONG><BR><BR>
        <DIV><STRONG>Hi Fred,&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
        &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
        &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
        &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Dec 21, 2014</STRONG> </DIV>
        <DIV><STRONG>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Good intentions have a way of =
goings=20
        astray; no doubt about that.</STRONG> </DIV>
        <DIV> </DIV>
        <DIV><STRONG>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Mandated targets for biodiesel=20
        e.g.&nbsp;led to rapid expansion of the tropical Palm Oil =
industry with=20
        ghastly human and environmental consequences. The corn to =
alcohol=20
        initiative in the US is another disaster.</STRONG> </DIV>
        <DIV> </DIV>
        <DIV><STRONG>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Tinkering with any complex =
system=20
        generates a need for rapid feedback and control so unforseen =
adverse=20
        consequences can be nipped in the bud. Otherwise an initiative =
will fly=20
        like one of Goddard's early rockets; squirm around until =
propulsion and=20
        gravity are acting in the same direction.&nbsp;Or in other words =

        follow&nbsp;the course of least resistance.</STRONG> </DIV>
        <DIV> </DIV>
        <DIV><STRONG>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ideally one would apply =
resistance so=20
        action combines maximum positive effects with minimum negative. =
But all=20
        to often some anticipated negative effect is enough to derail a=20
        undertaking that on balance would be very beneficial.</STRONG> =
</DIV>
        <DIV> </DIV>
        <DIV><STRONG>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Yt, Dave Webster, =
Kentville</STRONG>=20
        </DIV>
        <DIV><STRONG>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</STRONG> </DIV>
        <DIV> </DIV>
        <DIV><STRONG>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; .</STRONG> </DIV>
        <BLOCKQUOTE=20
        style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
          <DIV=20
          style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; =
font-stretch: normal"><STRONG>-----=20
          Original Message -----</STRONG> </DIV>
          <DIV=20
          style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; =
font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; font-color: =
black"><STRONG>From:=20
          Fred Schueler</STRONG> =
</DIV>
          <DIV=20
          style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; =
font-stretch: normal"><STRONG>To:=20
          <A=20
          =
href=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca">naturens@chebucto.ns.ca</A></STRO=
NG>=20
          </DIV>
          <DIV=20
          style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; =
font-stretch: normal"><STRONG>Sent:=20
          Saturday, December 20, 2014 9:00 PM</STRONG> </DIV>
          <DIV=20
          style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; =
font-stretch: normal"><STRONG>Subject:=20
          Re: Scope of NatureNS: Re: Long again: Re: Long: Re: =
[NatureNS]=20
          light</STRONG> </DIV>
          <DIV> </DIV><BR>
          <DIV class=3Dmoz-cite-prefix><STRONG>On 12/20/2014 6:33 PM, =
David &amp;=20
          Alison Webster wrote:</STRONG> </DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
            <DIV> </DIV>
            <DIV><STRONG>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Opposition to wind =
generation has=20
            often come strangely enough&nbsp;from Naturalists; =
organizations or=20
            individuals. This was helped I expect by a famous site in =
California=20
            that was set in a raptor migration channel in a mountain =
pass by,=20
            what a concidence, a Petrochemical Company.</STRONG>=20
          </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><STRONG>* experience in Ontario has =
been that=20
          these "green" energy projects are often put in by ecologically =

          insensitive firms, prompting the new provincial motto of =
Ontario=20
          "green is black." <A=20
          =
href=3D"http://www.saveostranderpoint.org/#sthash.LufTSMYD.dpbs">http://w=
ww.saveostranderpoint.org/#sthash.LufTSMYD.dpbs</A>=20
          is a tale of a wind farm in an "important bird area" where the =

          Ministry of the Environment joined the "proponent's" appeal of =
a=20
          decision that the project posed an unacceptable risk to a SAR, =
and the=20
          whole basis of the Ontario Rivers Alliance <A=20
          =
href=3D"http://www.ontarioriversalliance.ca/">http://www.ontarioriversall=
iance.ca/</A>=20
          was "green is black" mesoscale hydro projects that were to be =
blotted=20
          all across the norther part of the province - <A=20
          =
href=3D"http://karstaddailypaintings.blogspot.ca/2012/10/precious-wild-ri=
vers-calendar-for-2013.html">http://karstaddailypaintings.blogspot.ca/201=
2/10/precious-wild-rivers-calendar-for-2013.html</A>=20
          - see my comments. Another instance of this single-purpose=20
          insensitivity is the solar farms that are put in with no =
concern for=20
          Species at Risk that might be encouraged to live among the =
panels.=20
          </STRONG><BR><BR><STRONG>Just as is the case with massive=20
          certified-organic agriculture, if we're going to have green=20
          infrastructure it must be green all the way down - which will =
require=20
          substantial re-education of the industrial/financial sorts - =
it's not=20
          enough that politicians respond to the need to make =
alternative=20
          sources of energy useable - these installations must be =
installed with=20
          ecological sensitivity to the local sites, and in consultation =
with=20
          the local Human population. </STRONG><BR><BR><STRONG>fred.=20
          </STRONG><BR><PRE class=3Dmoz-signature><STRONG>--=20
------------------------------------------------------------
          Frederick W. Schueler &amp; Aleta Karstad
Daily Paintings - <A =
href=3D"http://karstaddailypaintings.blogspot.com/">http://karstaddailypa=
intings.blogspot.com/</A>
Vulnerable Watersheds - <A =
href=3D"http://vulnerablewaters.blogspot.ca/">http://vulnerablewaters.blo=
gspot.ca/</A>
Mudpuppy Night in Oxford Mills - <A =
href=3D"http://pinicola.ca/mudpup1.htm">http://pinicola.ca/mudpup1.htm</A=
>
    RR#2 Bishops Mills, Ontario, Canada K0G 1T0
   on the Smiths Falls Limestone Plain 44* 52'N 75* 42'W
    (613)258-3107 &lt;bckcdb at istar.ca&gt; <A =
href=3D"http://pinicola.ca/">http://pinicola.ca/</A>
------------------------------------------------------------
</STRONG></PRE>
          <P align=3Dleft><STRONG>No virus found in this=20
          message.</STRONG><BR><STRONG>Checked by AVG - <A=20
          =
href=3D"http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</A></STRONG><BR><STRONG>Version: =

          2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4253/8775 - Release Date:=20
          12/20/14</STRONG></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
      <DIV><BR><STRONG>&nbsp;</STRONG> </DIV>
      <P align=3Dleft><STRONG>No virus found in this=20
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      =
href=3D"http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</A></STRONG><BR><STRONG>Version: =

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      12/21/14</STRONG></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV><BR><STRONG>&nbsp; </STRONG></DIV><A></A>
  <P align=3Dleft color=3D"#000000" avgcert??>No virus found in this=20
  message.<BR>Checked by AVG - <A=20
  href=3D"http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</A><BR>Version: 2015.0.5577 / =
Virus=20
  Database: 4253/8781 - Release Date: =
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