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Hi Steve & All,                             Oct 7, 2015
    My Merck is 1976 so a bit dated but Cantharides has been around a long 
time. But the Merck information is ambiguous and 1 mg/kg for horses sounds 
far-fetched so where does the truth really lie ? [When the truth lies is 
self-evident; election time].

    If a horse died from eating a 'Blister Beetle' how could one establish 
that it had eaten a Blister Beetle ? So I suspect Baron Munchausen, or an 
understudy, was involved in that one.

Yt, DW, Kentville


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stephen Shaw" <srshaw@Dal.Ca>
To: <natureNS@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2015 1:44 AM
Subject: [NatureNS] RE: [New post] Blister Beetles’ Defense Mechanism


> Hi Dave et al,
> Curious also, I checked cantharidin on Wikipedia, recalling having read 
> somewhere that an entire French Foreign Legion outpost was reputedly 
> immobilised, so to speak, from painful priapism of many hours duration 
> from ingesting the stuff as Spanish Fly, intended as an aphrodisiac.   The 
> LD(50) (the lethal dose estimated to kill 50% of those receiving it) is 
> cited as 0.5mg/kg for humans, so for a modest 50kg/110 lb human, LD(50) 
> would be 25 mg, but the text says that as little as 10 mg 'can be lethal' 
> (or 'has been lethal'? - otherwise how would you know?).  Some blister 
> beetle species (Epicauta) are said to contain nearly 5 mg each, so 
> grinding up and ingesting an extract from as few as 2-5 such beetles could 
> do you in.
>
> For horses, 1 mg/kg is quoted.  Apparently, a few beetles hiding in bales 
> of feed hay have made short work of some horses.
>
> Depending on whether it's a recent edition, one would normally rate the 
> Merck Index above Wikipedia for reliable numbers, otherwise perhaps vice 
> versa for some substances.
> Steve (Hfx)
> ________________________________________
> From: David & Alison Webster [dwebster@glinx.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 5, 2015 8:59 PM
> To: Jim Wolford; Ian Manning
> Cc: Chris Majka; David McCorquodale; Angus MacLean; Stephen Shaw
> Subject: Re: [New post] Blister Beetles’ Defense Mechanism
>
> Hi All,
>    I just noticed that this was not on Naturens so my reply a few minutes 
> ago, effectively to Jim only, is pasted below.
> START OF PASTE\\\\\
> I wouldn't bet the farm on this being a balanced account.
>
>     According to my Merck Index 9th ed., the subcutaneous LD in rabbits of 
> cantharidin is 100 mg/Kg. Cantharides (Spanish Fly), derived from 
> Cantharis vesicatoria [really Lytta vesicatoria DW], is stated to contain 
> 0.6-1% cantharidin and to be highly toxic to humans by ingestion or 
> absorption from skin or mucous membranes.
>
>    I wonder if the reference, in this Naturally Curious article, to 100 mg 
> being lethal to humans, originated in the 100 mg/Kg sc lethal dose of 
> rabbits.
> YT, DW, Kentville
> END OF PASTE
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jim Wolford<mailto:jimwolford@eastlink.ca>
> To: Ian Manning<mailto:ianmanning4@gmail.com>
> Cc: Chris Majka<mailto:c.majka@ns.sympatico.ca> ; David 
> McCorquodale<mailto:david_mccorquodale@cbu.ca> ; Angus 
> MacLean<mailto:angusmcl@ns.sympatico.ca> ; Stephen 
> Shaw<mailto:srshaw@dal.ca> ; David & Alison 
> Webster<mailto:dwebster@glinx.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 05, 2015 6:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [New post] Blister Beetles’ Defense Mechanism
>
> Thanks, Ian!  OK to disseminate more widely?
>
> On Oct 5, 2015, at 8:57 AM, Ian Manning 
> <ianmanning4@gmail.com<mailto:ianmanning4@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Another bite of cool natural history from Mary Holland.
>
> Cheers,
> Ian
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Naturally Curious with Mary Holland 
> <comment-reply@wordpress.com<mailto:comment-reply@wordpress.com>>
> Date: 5 October 2015 at 08:03
> Subject: [New post] Blister Beetles’ Defense Mechanism
> To: imanning@upei.ca<mailto:imanning@upei.ca>
>
>
> Mary Holland posted: "Blister beetles are aptly named, for when they are 
> disturbed they emit a yellow, oily, defensive secretion (cantharidin) from 
> their joints which usually causes blisters when it comes in contact with 
> skin. This toxin deters many potential predators and is "
> Respond to this post by replying above this line
>
> New post on Naturally Curious with Mary Holland
> 
> [http://0.gravatar.com/blavatar/247bf460fa81e5a816e31c38c1012308?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2Fs0.wp.com%2Fi%2Femails%2Fblavatar.png&ts=1444043068]
> [http://2.gravatar.com/avatar/2f68fa0a2118c80811a23d5613ffacbc?s=50&d=identicon&r=G]<https://naturallycuriouswithmaryholland.wordpress.com/author/naturallycuriouswithmaryholland/>
> Blister Beetles’ Defense 
> Mechanism<https://naturallycuriouswithmaryholland.wordpress.com/2015/10/05/blister-beetles-defense-mechanism/>
> by Mary 
> Holland<https://naturallycuriouswithmaryholland.wordpress.com/author/naturallycuriouswithmaryholland/>
>
> [10-5 short-winged blister beetle 
> 064]<https://naturallycuriouswithmaryholland.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/10-5-short-winged-blister-beetle-0641.jpg>Blister 
> beetles are aptly named, for when they are disturbed they emit a yellow, 
> oily, defensive secretion (cantharidin) from their joints which usually 
> causes blisters when it comes in contact with skin. This toxin deters many 
> potential predators and is especially effective against ants. According to 
> naturalist/forester/writer Ginny Barlow, as little as 100 milligrams is 
> reported to be fatal to humans if ingested, and this amount can be 
> extracted from just a few beetles. Humans used to crush and dry blister 
> beetles and use the resulting concoction for gout and arthritis. It was 
> also used as a popular aphrodisiac known as Spanish fly. Because of its 
> toxicity, it is no longer widely used in medicine.
>
> Cantharidin is, however, indirectly used by tree-nesting nuthatches. With 
> a limited number of tree cavities, there is competition among animals 
> using them to raise their young, especially between squirrels and 
> nuthatches. Nuthatches have been seen with Short-winged Blister Beetles 
> (Meloe angusticollis, see photo) in their beaks, "sweeping" them on the 
> bark around tree cavity entrances. The nuthatches don’t eat the beetles, 
> they strictly use them as tools. It is assumed that the birds do this in 
> order to repel squirrels with the cantharidin that is smeared on the tree. 
> (Thanks to Ginny Barlow for photo opportunity.)
>
> Naturally Curious is supported by donations. If you choose to contribute, 
> you may go to 
> http://www.naturallycuriouswithmaryholland.wordpress.com<http://www.naturallycuriouswithmaryholland.wordpress.com/> 
> and click on the yellow “donate” button.
>
> Mary 
> Holland<https://naturallycuriouswithmaryholland.wordpress.com/author/naturallycuriouswithmaryholland/> 
> | October 5, 2015 at 7:01 am | Tags: 
> Cantharidin<https://naturallycuriouswithmaryholland.wordpress.com/tag/cantharidin/>, 
> Meloe 
> angusticollis<https://naturallycuriouswithmaryholland.wordpress.com/tag/meloe-angusticollis/> 
> | Categories: 
> Beetles<https://naturallycuriouswithmaryholland.wordpress.com/category/beetles/>, 
> Defense 
> Mechanisms<https://naturallycuriouswithmaryholland.wordpress.com/category/defense-mechanisms/>, 
> Insects<https://naturallycuriouswithmaryholland.wordpress.com/category/insects/>, 
> October<https://naturallycuriouswithmaryholland.wordpress.com/category/october/>, 
> Short-winged Blister 
> Beetle<https://naturallycuriouswithmaryholland.wordpress.com/category/short-winged-blister-beetle/>, 
> Uncategorized<https://naturallycuriouswithmaryholland.wordpress.com/category/uncategorized/> 
> | URL: http://wp.me/pNTN1-35w
>
> Comment<https://naturallycuriouswithmaryholland.wordpress.com/2015/10/05/blister-beetles-defense-mechanism/#respond> 
> See all 
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