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Hi All, Jan 11, 2016
I just remembered that whole tree harvesting can mean roots as well =
as tops so it may not be a good term to refer to Full tree brown or Full =
tree green. There is enough confusion without piling more on.
DW
----- Original Message -----=20
From: David & Alison Webster=20
To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca=20
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: [NatureNS] re Red Herring & Forestry
Hi Donna & All, Jan 11, 2016
I will address some of your other comments later but first things =
should come first.
It would be of great help if this whole tree harvesting were =
documented in a factual way and made public. This, to be credible, =
should be done with care to not exaggerate or wrap in emotion. This =
wears thin quickly.=20
About 1995 (?) I spent a few hours with a man from Newfoudland who =
had taken Silvaculture in NB and moved directly to BC for work. So I =
asked why he had not remained in Atlantic Canada. His long reply =
reduced to few words was that Forestry in Atlantic Canada was dead =
by1970; nagged to death by environmentalists plus Forestry here has many =
natural disadvantages: as pulp mills became obsolete they would shut and =
the companies would move on.
About 8 years ago Irving generated flak by refusing to reroute a road, =
at great cost, to avoid possibly disturbing a Heron colony. A paste from =
one of my e-mails is relevant. =20
PASTE from my post of Mar 27, 2008 \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
In any case those who objected to normal Forestry harvesting cycles=20
of about 100 years will soon look back to those times as the good old=20
days, as more forest land is converted back to farming or to 7-year=20
biomass harvesting cycles.
END OF PASTE\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ =20
Shortly after the Cod stocks collapsed many years ago I happened to =
hear an Economics Prof. from Memorial on the radio. According to him, =
Nfld. would do just fine without fisheries; there was Teaching, Highways =
work, Health Care, Police work... all activities which consume wealth =
and no primary industry to create wealth. This is typical of modern =
'thought'.
I had wanted as time permitted to discuss the future of Forestry on =
Naturens but unfortunately a brush fire, in the form of whole tree =
harvesting, takes priority. First I think it helps to employ the power =
of self-interest.=20
There have been shortages of firewood, hardwood for high value =
products and wood pellets in recent years and I would guess that =
biomass, not only for local plants but for export, is a major cause of =
this. If the above washes,after careful documentation, then it should be =
made public.=20
As I think I observed some time ago, the colossal machine trades =
local jobs for remote jobs and exports wealth. That aspect could also be =
documented to effect I suspect; self-interest again.
Yt, Dave Webster, Kentville
=20
=20
=20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Donna Crossland" <dcrossland@eastlink.ca>
To: <naturens@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2016 10:43 PM
Subject: RE: [NatureNS] re Red Herring & Forestry
> There is no whole-tree harvesting allowed on Crown lands. Bob =
Bancroft and
> I suggested this be enacted back in 2010 during the Natural Resources
> Strategy, and it may be one of the very few good things (sadly) that =
stemmed
> from our work. But as we know, Crown land is a very small portion of =
the
> province. Private lands are where the atrocities are presently =
occurring,
> and there is an increasing focus on how to convince private land =
holders to
> relinquish their wood. =20
>=20
> Foresters have been ordered to go and find suitable private lands for =
"full
> tree" harvesting for some companies. The criteria are deplorably low =
and
> devastating on the ecology of the land. Search for lands that are at =
least
> 50 % treed (species not important, but hardwood is best for most =
operations)
> that are 4 inches in diameter (DBH) or greater. (Teeny, tiny trees, =
in
> other words.)
>=20
> Our Nova Scotia forests are being cut long before maturity and long =
before
> they are allowed to recover and grow to the next successional stage.
> "Stands" of grey/wire birch (barely meet the criteria of a "stand") =
are
> being mowed down; this little tree which generally indicates past =
abuses
> wherever it grows by its very nature is never allowed to 'heal the =
land' or
> restore soil, as is part of its natural ecological role. The =
flattening of
> such stands resets the land to the same early successional stage. =
Other
> stand types are also being cut using the same criteria. Yellow birch, =
sugar
> maple, no matter-all sent through the chipper. It doesn't matter if =
it's
> green or brown biomass. There are no laws for private. I sometimes =
lie
> awake at night during springtime and wonder how many bird nests and =
young
> are being sent through the chipper while we sleep (operations go all =
night
> and day, no matter the season in the mad dash for the last pitiful =
grab). =20
>=20
> The tops of some of the softwoods, if present in the stand during a =
full
> tree chipping operation, may be taken back out to the site and =
scattered
> around. The goal is not environmental so much as to please the buyer =
who
> wants mainly hardwood chips for industrial pellets overseas. And other =
wood,
> of course is going to the Port Hawkesbury burner. Biomass burners are
> starting to pop up here and there elsewhere in NS, too. (We no longer =
grow
> trees to saw log size, and no new saw log mills have been started up =
for
> ages.)
>=20
> Companies such as Reeves out of New Ross puts most of their cut =
through the
> chipper. Chips are going to Sheet Harbour and from there I am not =
certain
> to where. I know that several years ago, some operations were quietly
> shipping wood chips across the Atlantic to biomass burners in Europe =
so they
> could state they were generating 'green energy'. It would be =
laughable if
> it were not so sad.=20
>=20
> I am happy to see this topic being focussed upon by the naturalist
> community, and I am grateful to Jamie Simpson's research into biomass. =
This
> is a very important subject, and one that our current politicians =
would not
> disagree with. More that I would like to share with folks on that =
later,
> but there is another item or two that I would like to address before =
bed-=20
>=20
> About thinning: What I've been reading in this thread is an old =
school,
> 'agronomist' perspective still widely taught in forestry, and a =
strongly
> held mantra with foresters, but one not generally adopted by
> biologists/ecologists/naturalists who are taught to think more broadly =
on
> the incredible complexities of forest ecology. Thinning trees is done
> mostly to speed up growth and yields. The objective to cut down trees
> sooner. There are stacks of research papers on this, but some of the =
more
> recent ones question the whole practice of thinning and its economic
> practicality. Thinning is also highly detrimental to forest =
songbirds, and
> many folks will admit that they knowingly destroy countless nests =
while
> thinning during springtime. Nonetheless, I hear all sorts of =
justifications
> for the practice, but the truth is that nature does just fine on her =
own,
> and we should learn to wait and be patient. She'll grow the best =
trees. (I
> believe this was Mary's well-stated point of view also.) I've got at =
least
> one research paper that concluded that thinning a spruce stand simply =
acted
> as a vector for fungal infection through nearly the entire stand. (I =
can
> reference it, but no time to find it now.) Natural forests will =
self-thin
> in their own time, deciding on their own which is the strongest =
individual
> genetic stock to survive in each microhabitat situation, and they =
don't need
> help from us. However, the forester knocking on your door and wanting =
to
> cut your wood will spin a different story, often alarmist about the =
great
> need to thin, or simply (usually) to cut down all the trees in your =
woodlot
> as a great favour to you before disaster strikes ("the sky is falling"
> analogy). =20
>=20
>>From what I've read on this thread, it seems that all forest types are =
being
> painted by the same brush, as if they all act/react in the same way.
> Generalizing about trees dying all at once usually refers to the early
> successional forests, rather than the late successional forests that =
were
> more commonly supported on Nova Scotia landscapes at one time =
(excluding CB
> highlands). Multi-aged, late successional forests do not die all at =
once
> (regardless of insect infestation or catastrophic wind), and will
> self-perpetuate and self-thin. I would hazard a guess that the =
forests I've
> read that are dying all at once are white spruce (hit hard by spruce =
bark
> beetle). That situation does not speak for the rest.=20
>=20
> About wildlife use: Another aggravating point resurrected in this =
thread is
> that in forestry school we are taught to manage stands for "wildlife", =
but
> that wildlife is generally the snowshoe hare and white-tailed deer, =
species
> that require some disturbance to survive. It is so frustrating to
> repeatedly see forestry posters with the deer prominently featured, as =
if it
> is a species that points to a well-managed forest. While correcting =
student
> papers on forest management at UNB Dept of Forestry, I never once read =
a
> well thought out management plan that managed forests in the best =
interests
> of moose, marten, fisher, brook trout, or Blackburnian warblers. Such
> species would have made much better indicators of good forest =
management
> practices. Alas, even deer require some shelter in winter storms, =
best
> provided in our closed-canopy hemlock stands-wonderfully 'barn-like' =
and
> peaceful in winter. We all need to visit such stand types in winter =
to
> appreciate their fantastic ecological value, and perhaps to take a =
precious
> moment to meditate and breathe forest air.
>=20
> It's bedtime.
>=20
> Donna Crossland
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca =
[mailto:naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]
> On Behalf Of David & Alison Webster
> Sent: January-10-16 8:18 PM
> To: NatureNS@chebucto.ns.ca
> Subject: [NatureNS] re Red Herring & Forestry
>=20
> Dear All, Jan 10, 2016
> Returning hopefully to where this all started, can anyone refresh =
the
> screen on current biomass harvesting practices; which is used and =
which
> predominates (1)stem only, (2) stem+ branches, leaves shed (Full tree =
brown)
> or (3) stem+ branches + leaves (Full tree green) ?
>=20
> I recently had a look at a 247 page Masters Thesis (Noseworthy); =
many
> variates, many equations and most of these are interdependent. Unless =
I can
> arrange for a second life I will never find time to plow through all =
of it
> and grasp the model fully. So I have to trust that the hundreds of
> researchers who developed the model over 35 (?) years are not =
seriously in
> error and just concentrate on findings in this Thesis.
>=20
> Knowing current practices will be a help.
>=20
> Yt, Dave Webster, Kentville
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2016.0.7294 / Virus Database: 4489/11377 - Release Date: =
01/11/16
>
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<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>Hi All, =20
=
=20
Jan 11, 2016</DIV>
<DIV> I just remembered that whole tree harvesting can =
mean=20
roots as well as tops so it may not be a good term to refer to Full=20
tree brown or Full tree green. There is enough confusion without =
piling=20
more on.</DIV>
<DIV>DW</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----=20
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A=20
title=3Ddwebster@glinx.com href=3D"mailto:dwebster@glinx.com">David =
& Alison=20
Webster</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dnaturens@chebucto.ns.ca=20
href=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca">naturens@chebucto.ns.ca</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Monday, January 11, 2016 11:20 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NatureNS] re Red Herring & =
Forestry</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Hi Donna & All, =
=20
=
=20
Jan 11, 2016</DIV>
<DIV> I will address some of your other comments later =
but=20
first things should come first.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> It would be of great help if this whole tree =
harvesting=20
were documented in a factual way and made public. This, to be credible, =
should=20
be done with care to not exaggerate or wrap in emotion. This wears thin =
quickly.=20
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> About 1995 (?) I spent a few hours with a man =
from=20
Newfoudland who had taken Silvaculture in NB and moved directly to BC =
for work.=20
So I asked why he had not remained in Atlantic Canada. His long =
reply=20
reduced to few words was that Forestry in Atlantic Canada was dead =
by1970;=20
nagged to death by environmentalists plus Forestry here has many =
natural=20
disadvantages: as pulp mills became obsolete they would shut =
and the=20
companies would move on.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> About 8 years ago Irving generated flak by refusing to =
reroute=20
a road, at great cost, to avoid possibly disturbing a Heron =
colony. A paste=20
from one of my e-mails is relevant. </DIV>
<DIV>PASTE from my post of Mar 27, 2008 =
<A>\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\</A></DIV>
<DIV> In any case those who objected to normal Forestry =
harvesting=20
cycles <BR>of about 100 years will soon look back to those times as the =
good old=20
<BR>days, as more forest land is converted back to farming or to <FONT=20
color=3D#ff0000>7-year <BR>biomass harvesting =
cycles.<BR></FONT> END OF=20
PASTE\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ </DIV>
<DIV> Shortly after the Cod stocks collapsed many =
years=20
ago I happened to hear an Economics Prof. from Memorial on the radio. =
According=20
to him, Nfld. would do just fine without fisheries; there was Teaching, =
Highways=20
work, Health Care, Police work... all activities which consume wealth =
and no=20
primary industry to create wealth. This is typical of modern=20
'thought'.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> I had wanted as time permitted to discuss the =
future of=20
Forestry on Naturens but unfortunately a brush fire, in the form of =
whole tree=20
harvesting, takes priority. First I think it helps to employ the power =
of=20
self-interest. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> There have been shortages of firewood, hardwood =
for high=20
value products and wood pellets in recent years and I would guess =
that=20
biomass, not only for local plants but for export, is a major cause of =
this. If=20
the above washes,after careful documentation, then it should =
be made=20
public. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> As I think I observed some time ago, the =
colossal=20
machine trades local jobs for remote jobs and exports wealth. That =
aspect could=20
also be documented to effect I suspect; self-interest again.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Yt, Dave Webster, Kentville</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message -----=20
<DIV>From: "Donna Crossland" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:dcrossland@eastlink.ca">dcrossland@eastlink.ca</A>></DI=
V>
<DIV>To: <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca">naturens@chebucto.ns.ca</A>></=
DIV>
<DIV>Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2016 10:43 PM</DIV>
<DIV>Subject: RE: [NatureNS] re Red Herring & Forestry</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>> There is no whole-tree harvesting allowed on Crown=20
lands. Bob Bancroft and<BR>> I suggested this be enacted back =
in 2010=20
during the Natural Resources<BR>> Strategy, and it may be one of the =
very few=20
good things (sadly) that stemmed<BR>> from our work. But as we =
know,=20
Crown land is a very small portion of the<BR>> province. =
Private lands=20
are where the atrocities are presently occurring,<BR>> and there is =
an=20
increasing focus on how to convince private land holders to<BR>> =
relinquish=20
their wood. <BR>> <BR>> Foresters have been ordered to go =
and find=20
suitable private lands for "full<BR>> tree" harvesting for some=20
companies. The criteria are deplorably low and<BR>> devastating =
on the=20
ecology of the land. Search for lands that are at least<BR>> 50 =
% treed=20
(species not important, but hardwood is best for most =
operations)<BR>> that=20
are 4 inches in diameter (DBH) or greater. (Teeny, tiny trees, =
in<BR>>=20
other words.)<BR>> <BR>> Our Nova Scotia forests are being cut =
long before=20
maturity and long before<BR>> they are allowed to recover and grow to =
the=20
next successional stage.<BR>> "Stands" of grey/wire birch (barely =
meet the=20
criteria of a "stand") are<BR>> being mowed down; this little tree =
which=20
generally indicates past abuses<BR>> wherever it grows by its very =
nature is=20
never allowed to 'heal the land' or<BR>> restore soil, as is part of =
its=20
natural ecological role. The flattening of<BR>> such stands =
resets the=20
land to the same early successional stage. Other<BR>> stand =
types are=20
also being cut using the same criteria. Yellow birch, =
sugar<BR>> maple,=20
no matter-all sent through the chipper. It doesn't matter if =
it's<BR>>=20
green or brown biomass. There are no laws for private. I =
sometimes=20
lie<BR>> awake at night during springtime and wonder how many bird =
nests and=20
young<BR>> are being sent through the chipper while we sleep =
(operations go=20
all night<BR>> and day, no matter the season in the mad dash for the =
last=20
pitiful grab). <BR>> <BR>> The tops of some of the =
softwoods, if=20
present in the stand during a full<BR>> tree chipping operation, may =
be taken=20
back out to the site and scattered<BR>> around. The goal is not =
environmental so much as to please the buyer who<BR>> wants mainly =
hardwood=20
chips for industrial pellets overseas. And other wood,<BR>> of course =
is=20
going to the Port Hawkesbury burner. Biomass burners are<BR>> =
starting=20
to pop up here and there elsewhere in NS, too. (We no longer =
grow<BR>>=20
trees to saw log size, and no new saw log mills have been started up =
for<BR>>=20
ages.)<BR>> <BR>> Companies such as Reeves out of New Ross puts =
most of=20
their cut through the<BR>> chipper. Chips are going to Sheet =
Harbour=20
and from there I am not certain<BR>> to where. I know that =
several=20
years ago, some operations were quietly<BR>> shipping wood chips =
across the=20
Atlantic to biomass burners in Europe so they<BR>> could state they =
were=20
generating 'green energy'. It would be laughable if<BR>> it =
were not so=20
sad. <BR>> <BR>> I am happy to see this topic being focussed upon =
by the=20
naturalist<BR>> community, and I am grateful to Jamie Simpson's =
research into=20
biomass. This<BR>> is a very important subject, and one that =
our=20
current politicians would not<BR>> disagree with. More that I =
would=20
like to share with folks on that later,<BR>> but there is another =
item or two=20
that I would like to address before bed- <BR>> <BR>> About =
thinning: =20
What I've been reading in this thread is an old school,<BR>> =
'agronomist'=20
perspective still widely taught in forestry, and a strongly<BR>> held =
mantra=20
with foresters, but one not generally adopted by<BR>>=20
biologists/ecologists/naturalists who are taught to think more broadly=20
on<BR>> the incredible complexities of forest ecology. Thinning =
trees=20
is done<BR>> mostly to speed up growth and yields. The objective to =
cut down=20
trees<BR>> sooner. There are stacks of research papers on this, =
but=20
some of the more<BR>> recent ones question the whole practice of =
thinning and=20
its economic<BR>> practicality. Thinning is also highly =
detrimental to=20
forest songbirds, and<BR>> many folks will admit that they knowingly =
destroy=20
countless nests while<BR>> thinning during springtime. =
Nonetheless, I=20
hear all sorts of justifications<BR>> for the practice, but the truth =
is that=20
nature does just fine on her own,<BR>> and we should learn to wait =
and be=20
patient. She'll grow the best trees. (I<BR>> believe this =
was=20
Mary's well-stated point of view also.) I've got at least<BR>> =
one=20
research paper that concluded that thinning a spruce stand simply =
acted<BR>>=20
as a vector for fungal infection through nearly the entire stand. =
(I=20
can<BR>> reference it, but no time to find it now.) Natural =
forests=20
will self-thin<BR>> in their own time, deciding on their own which is =
the=20
strongest individual<BR>> genetic stock to survive in each =
microhabitat=20
situation, and they don't need<BR>> help from us. However, the =
forester=20
knocking on your door and wanting to<BR>> cut your wood will spin a =
different=20
story, often alarmist about the great<BR>> need to thin, or simply =
(usually)=20
to cut down all the trees in your woodlot<BR>> as a great favour to =
you=20
before disaster strikes ("the sky is falling"<BR>> analogy). =
<BR>>=20
<BR>>>From what I've read on this thread, it seems that all forest =
types=20
are being<BR>> painted by the same brush, as if they all act/react in =
the=20
same way.<BR>> Generalizing about trees dying all at once usually =
refers to=20
the early<BR>> successional forests, rather than the late =
successional=20
forests that were<BR>> more commonly supported on Nova Scotia =
landscapes at=20
one time (excluding CB<BR>> highlands). Multi-aged, late successional =
forests=20
do not die all at once<BR>> (regardless of insect infestation or =
catastrophic=20
wind), and will<BR>> self-perpetuate and self-thin. I would =
hazard a=20
guess that the forests I've<BR>> read that are dying all at once are =
white=20
spruce (hit hard by spruce bark<BR>> beetle). That situation =
does not=20
speak for the rest. <BR>> <BR>> About wildlife use: Another=20
aggravating point resurrected in this thread is<BR>> that in forestry =
school=20
we are taught to manage stands for "wildlife", but<BR>> that wildlife =
is=20
generally the snowshoe hare and white-tailed deer, species<BR>> that =
require=20
some disturbance to survive. It is so frustrating to<BR>> =
repeatedly=20
see forestry posters with the deer prominently featured, as if =
it<BR>> is a=20
species that points to a well-managed forest. While correcting=20
student<BR>> papers on forest management at UNB Dept of Forestry, I =
never=20
once read a<BR>> well thought out management plan that managed =
forests in the=20
best interests<BR>> of moose, marten, fisher, brook trout, or =
Blackburnian=20
warblers. Such<BR>> species would have made much better =
indicators of=20
good forest management<BR>> practices. Alas, even deer require =
some=20
shelter in winter storms, best<BR>> provided in our closed-canopy =
hemlock=20
stands-wonderfully 'barn-like' and<BR>> peaceful in winter. We =
all need=20
to visit such stand types in winter to<BR>> appreciate their =
fantastic=20
ecological value, and perhaps to take a precious<BR>> moment to =
meditate and=20
breathe forest air.<BR>> <BR>> It's bedtime.<BR>> <BR>> =
Donna=20
Crossland<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> -----Original Message-----<BR>> =
From: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca">naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.=
ca</A>=20
[mailto:naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]<BR>> On Behalf Of David & =
Alison=20
Webster<BR>> Sent: January-10-16 8:18 PM<BR>> To: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:NatureNS@chebucto.ns.ca">NatureNS@chebucto.ns.ca</A><BR>&g=
t;=20
Subject: [NatureNS] re Red Herring & Forestry<BR>> <BR>> Dear=20
All, &nb=
sp; &nbs=
p; =20
Jan 10, 2016<BR>> Returning hopefully to where this =
all=20
started, can anyone refresh the<BR>> screen on current biomass =
harvesting=20
practices; which is used and which<BR>> predominates (1)stem only, =
(2) stem+=20
branches, leaves shed (Full tree brown)<BR>> or (3) stem+ branches + =
leaves=20
(Full tree green) ?<BR>> <BR>> I recently had a =
look at=20
a 247 page Masters Thesis (Noseworthy); many<BR>> variates, many =
equations=20
and most of these are interdependent. Unless I can<BR>> arrange for a =
second=20
life I will never find time to plow through all of it<BR>> and grasp =
the=20
model fully. So I have to trust that the hundreds of<BR>> =
researchers=20
who developed the model over 35 (?) years are not seriously in<BR>> =
error and=20
just concentrate on findings in this Thesis.<BR>> =
<BR>> =20
Knowing current practices will be a help.<BR>> <BR>> Yt, Dave =
Webster,=20
Kentville<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> =
<BR>>=20
-----<BR>> No virus found in this message.<BR>> Checked by AVG - =
<A=20
href=3D"http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</A><BR>> Version: 2016.0.7294 =
/ Virus=20
Database: 4489/11377 - Release Date: 01/11/16<BR>> </BODY></HTML>
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