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And the political influence is easy to understand! John
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Take MICA as an example - no ATVs there but can put on a dinner and
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raise $75000 in an evening. Make the politicans realize these people are
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serious and come to their aid no matter which political party is in powe=
r.
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If you want action, get out raise money, buy marshes, bogs whatever
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and you will get their attention.
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That's what ATVers do - every year a licence to buy plus sales tax a=
nd so on.
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Do Naturalists ever buy a licence to bird watch??
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Enjoy the winter
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Paul
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<!-- <![endif] -->On January 24, 2016 at 1:27 PM John and Nhung <nhu=
ngjohn@eastlink.ca> wrote:
<br/>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: #1f497d; font-family: '=
;Calibri','sans-serif'; font-size: 11pt;">Excellent points, Bev=
and Donna.  I, too, am amazed at the political influence enjoyed by A=
TV=E2=80=99ers.  I also agree that there are more than enough trails a=
lready in existence.</span></p>=20
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: #1f497d; font-family: '=
;Calibri','sans-serif'; font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>=20
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: #1f497d; font-family: '=
;Calibri','sans-serif'; font-size: 11pt;">This pragmatist suspe=
cts that we might be more effective if we agreed with the =E2=80=9Cgood guy=
s=E2=80=9D in the ATV fraternity that the =E2=80=9Ceejits=E2=80=9D are a pr=
oblem for all of us, and encourage them to feel an obligation to help deal =
with the problem.  Said encouragement may be something that may gain m=
ore traction with government.</span></p>=20
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: #1f497d; font-family: '=
;Calibri','sans-serif'; font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>=20
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: #1f497d; font-family: '=
;Calibri','sans-serif'; font-size: 11pt;">Just thinking out lou=
d. </span></p>=20
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: #1f497d; font-family: '=
;Calibri','sans-serif'; font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>=20
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: #1f497d; font-family: '=
;Calibri','sans-serif'; font-size: 11pt;">Another possible less=
on:  TREPA owns a piece of land on a lake which harbours a number of A=
tlantic Coastal Plains flora, including a respectable growth of Plymouth ge=
ntian.   An old trail allows vehicular access to the lakeshore, a=
nd gets used, despite discouraging words from us.  The shoreline is al=
so accessible from crossing an adjacent stream.  (I know, I know, but =
who=E2=80=99s gonna stop the eejits?  This <strong>is </strong>a remot=
e place)</span></p>=20
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: #1f497d; font-family: '=
;Calibri','sans-serif'; font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>=20
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: #1f497d; font-family: '=
;Calibri','sans-serif'; font-size: 11pt;">Anyway, a series of c=
oncrete blocks, placed near the shore in 2007,  discouraged access for=
a little while, but things deteriorated, and by 2014, a large chunk of the=
shoreline was seriously chewed up. </span></p>=20
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: #1f497d; font-family: '=
;Calibri','sans-serif'; font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>=20
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: #1f497d; font-family: '=
;Calibri','sans-serif'; font-size: 11pt;">Enter DNR and MTRI, w=
ho did a rare plant survey in the area in 2014, and were appalled at the da=
mage.  On the advice of DNR, we posted the land (one extra offence if =
we had trespassing), and agreed that DNR could set up cameras wherever they=
saw fit.  Said cameras caught three interlopers crossing the stream a=
nd not wearing helmets, and my recollection is that the provincial coffers =
increased by $3,600, as a result.</span></p>=20
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: #1f497d; font-family: '=
;Calibri','sans-serif'; font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>=20
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: #1f497d; font-family: '=
;Calibri','sans-serif'; font-size: 11pt;">The incursions we had=
last year were much more modest.  Let=E2=80=99s see how 2016 goes, bu=
t DNR is welcome to put up those cameras on the nature reserve any time the=
y want!</span></p>=20
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: #1f497d; font-family: '=
;Calibri','sans-serif'; font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>=20
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: #1f497d; font-family: '=
;Calibri','sans-serif'; font-size: 11pt;">My conclusion: Video =
cameras are a great way of deterring offenders.  We need more of =E2=
=80=98em.</span></p>=20
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: #1f497d; font-family: '=
;Calibri','sans-serif'; font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>=20
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: #1f497d; font-family: '=
;Calibri','sans-serif'; font-size: 11pt;">Maybe ATV association=
s would be willing to help the government pay for some, and be part of a te=
am suggesting possible placement sites.  DNR can decide on its own whe=
re to put them, and the rest of us don=E2=80=99t need to know.  </span=
></p>=20
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: #1f497d; font-family: '=
;Calibri','sans-serif'; font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>=20
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: #1f497d; font-family: '=
;Calibri','sans-serif'; font-size: 11pt;">I suspect camera loca=
tions would need to be rotated periodically=E2=80=A6</span></p>=20
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: #1f497d; font-family: '=
;Calibri','sans-serif'; font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>=20
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: #1f497d; font-family: '=
;Calibri','sans-serif'; font-size: 11pt;">Just thinkin=E2=80=99=
and sharin=E2=80=99 =E2=80=A6</span></p>=20
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: #1f497d; font-family: '=
;Calibri','sans-serif'; font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>=20
<div>=20
<div style=3D"border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid non=
e none; border-color: #b5c4df currentColor currentColor; padding: 3pt 0cm 0=
cm; border-image: none;">=20
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><strong><span style=3D"font-family: 'Tahom=
a','sans-serif'; font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></strong><span s=
tyle=3D"font-family: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; font-size: 10pt=
;"> naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca [mailto:naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca] <s=
trong>On Behalf Of </strong>bev wigney<br/><strong>Sent:</strong> January 2=
4, 2016 10:27 AM<br/><strong>To:</strong> naturens@chebucto.ns.ca<br/><stro=
ng>Subject:</strong> Re: [NatureNS] Protected areas; ATV use-some thoughts =
for moose and trout</span></p>=20
</div>=20
</div>=20
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"> </p>=20
<div>=20
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Donna, and all,</p>=20
</div>=20
<div>=20
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"> </p>=20
</div>=20
<div>=20
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Very much agree with what Donna has written. &#=
160;For several years, I was involved with a forest services committee in t=
he Ottawa area.  There was an ATV-snowmobile club that continuously lo=
bbied to claim access to almost all of the large municipal managed forest. =
 The leaders of the club attended every meeting and I expect they them=
selves were well meaning and no doubt ethical with their own use of the tra=
ils, but unfortunately, they had no true control over other members or non-=
member ATVers who also used the trails.  In my time spent at the fores=
t, I saw a boardwalk through a bog destroyed by ATVers who drove large mach=
ines onto it, breaking slats and causing it to flip over for its entire len=
gth.   A neat little rustic x-country ski shelter was burnt up by a pa=
rty fire made with old junk such as foam mattresses hauled into the woods b=
y ATV.  Several ATVers pretty much destroyed the wetland area just bel=
ow the dam on a small lake funded by Ducks Unlimited by driving back and fo=
rth through it doing "mud crawls" (look that up if you don't kn=
ow the term).  A hiking trail intended as a "pedestrian-only natur=
e walk" around the same  lake was ripped all to hell by ATVers who=
just *had* to go there instead of staying on the dozens of ATV-permitted f=
orest trails.  A colony of fairly rare Walking Ferns was destroyed by =
ATVs that used the rock face they grew from as a place to try rock-face cli=
mbing and also as a detour to bypass a barrier that blocked off a pedestria=
n trail.  ATV barriers were repeatedly jerked loose from pedestrian tr=
ailheads by people using 4x4s and chains and/or winches.   I could go =
on at length, but what's the point?  I have tried to be open to th=
e idea of ATV use on public lands, but it is difficult to feel any degree o=
f support after seeing incredible acts of destruction, not just in Ontario,=
but in Nova Scotia, and most certainly down in the southwest US where ATVs=
proliferate by the thousands.  No matter where I have travelled, if t=
here is an area of natural trails intended to be restricted to non-motorize=
d use - there will I find barriers torn down and senseless habitat destruct=
ion.  I just can't feel much optimism that things will be differen=
t in Nova Scotia.</p>=20
</div>=20
<div>=20
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"> </p>=20
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<div>=20
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">And, much like Donna, the rail line through the=
Valley goes past my place too.  ATVers already use this section of tr=
ail and the noise on weekends in spring and autumn, and often many weekdays=
in summer, is absolutely appalling at times.   I rarely walk on that =
trail with my dogs as the ATVs come racing through too fast and it is hard =
to crush off into the dense brush on either side of the trail to get out of=
their way.  In the earthier sections of trail, after a rain, the mud =
is churned up as deep as my ankles.  All in all, it makes the trail qu=
ite useless for pedestrians or bicycles.  Oh well.  If this is wh=
at people want, I guess this is what we will get.</p>=20
</div>=20
<div>=20
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"> </p>=20
</div>=20
<div>=20
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Bev Wigney</p>=20
</div>=20
<div>=20
<p style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;" class=3D"MsoNormal"> </p>=20
</div>=20
<div>=20
<p style=3D"margin-bottom: 12pt;" class=3D"MsoNormal"><br/>On 2016-01-=
24, at 10:33 AM, Donna Crossland <<a href=3D"mailto:dcrossland@eastlink=
.ca">dcrossland@eastlink.ca</a>> wrote:</p>=20
</div>=20
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">=20
<div>=20
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color: #1f497d; font-family: &#=
39;Calibri','sans-serif'; font-size: 11pt;">Sadly, there is a m=
inority among the ATV groups who have carelessly littered remote locations,=
and far worse, can fish out previously hard-to-get to remote streams with =
healthy trout populations.  Fires have been carelessly started that le=
d to wildfires (e.g., one that I have noted on the =E2=80=98fire roads=E2=
=80=99 recently, which we taxpayers must pay to put out.  There is no =
=E2=80=98let it burn=E2=80=99 policy in place, as NS is too small for this =
concept which is more appropriate for other ecosystems such as the vast bor=
eal).   </span></p>=20
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"> </p>=20
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"> </p>=20
</div>=20
</blockquote>=20
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width: 1px; border-top-style: solid;">=20
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