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target=3D"_blank">lance.laviolette@lmc --f403045e21e092ab6d05419635fc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I couldn't agree more Lance and you have captured the reality of "American" perfectly. We all know there is a North America and a South America and that many countries are included there. We also all know that in the entire world "American" equals "citizen of the United States". Let's keep it real. I presume there have always been one or more Canadian members on the AOU. I have also always suspected that someone was very Canadian, very deferential, very concerned about their professional relationships, and also a failure on this specific debate in 1953. It is hard to imagine that if the position had been argued with the passion that it deserved, that the vote would have been lost. (Of course, I wasn't there. But I served on many committees in my day and know how they work.) Regards, Rick Whitman On 18 November 2016 at 12:34, Laviolette, Lance <lance.laviolette@lmco.com> wrote: > Hi Fred, > > Perisoreus canadensis canadensis, that's a lot of Canadian content packed > into one bird. Inevitably a name had to be chosen for the species and > Canada Jay could have been the name. For the majority of Canadians, > subspecies are not differentiated but if an English name was needed for P= . > c. canadensis subspecies then it could have been Gray Jay. > > Common names were rarely, if ever, universal so that fact that Wi-akajak, > W=C3=ACsakedj=C3=A0k, W=C4=ABhsakec=C4=81hkw, Wiisagejaak, Inktonme, Nana= bozho, Whiskey Jack, > Camp Robber, Gray Jay, Meat Bird, White-headed Jay, Oregon Jay and numero= us > others have been used to identify this species is not important to this > discussion. What is important is that not only is Gray Jay a bland, > non-inspiring choice of an English name for such a great bird but in its > current form it is spelled incorrectly for Canadian consumption. The Fren= ch > name has it right, M=C3=A9sangeai du Canada and it=E2=80=99s time the Eng= lish name moved > out of the last century and into the present one. > > I have to agree with Wayne. To paraphrase Frodo Baggins, the name was > taken and hidden away, never to be spoken of again. However, like that > famous gold ring he was speaking of, Canada Jay keeps popping up again in > the memory of Canadian birders. > > There are few enough birds with Canada as part of their name but a whole > lot with American. I know it is SUPPOSED to stand for North American but = I > always imagine American (as in the United States of AMERICA) Ornithologis= ts > quietly laughing about it behind closed doors. Would bringing the number = of > birds with Canada in their name back up to the enormous total of three > really be that much of a crime? > > I'll tell you what=E2=80=A6 why don't we offer an exchange? The AMERICAN > Ornithologists Union can reinstate Canada Jay to its rightful place in th= e > pantheon of bird names and we will 'sacrifice' Canada Goose to them. They > can call the illustrious poop factory Gray Goose or even American Goose i= f > they'd like. > > All the best, > > Lance > > Lance Laviolette > Glen Robertson, Ontario > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca [mailto:naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca= ] > On Behalf Of Fred Schueler > Sent: Friday, November 18, 2016 9:43 AM > To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca > Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [NatureNS] Re: Choice For Our 'National Bird' > ...The Gray Jay > > On 11/18/2016 1:20 AM, Wayne P. Neily wrote: > > > / Perisoreus canadensis/, M=C3=A9sangeai du Canada, Canada Jay, or it= s > > Algonkin name of 'wis-akajak' is a great choice for our national bird, > > but let's resist calling it what the AMERICAN Ornithologists' > > Union changed its name to. They not only stole our name of Canada Jay > > and hid it, but to add insult to injury, they used the US mis-spelling > > of "grey"! > > * in the fussing about the loss of 'Canada Jay' as a name, no one mention= s > that this was a result of the 1953 decision by the AOU not to have Englis= h > names for subspecies. 'Canada Jay' was the name of Perisoreus c. > canadansis, which was the subspecies for most of the way across Canada, b= ut > there's swarms of other nominal subspecies - > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_jay#Distribution - several in Canada, > so the English name wasn't ever 'Canada Jay' in various corners of Canada= . > So the name 'Canada Jay' wasn't stolen, it was sacrificed to the > more-or-less good cause of restricting English names to species (rather > than scrubbing all the nominal subspecies which were just based on clinal > geographic variation rather than taxon-like geographic breaks in variatio= n). > > fred. > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Frederick W. Schueler & Aleta Karstad > Fragile Inheritance Natural History Daily Paintings - > http://karstaddailypaintings.blogspot.com/ > Vulnerable Watersheds - http://vulnerablewaters.blogspot.ca/ > Mudpuppy Night in Oxford Mills - http://pinicola.ca/mudpup1.htm > 4 St-Lawrence Street Bishops Mills, RR#2 Oxford Station, Ontario K0G 1T0 > on the Smiths Falls Limestone Plain 44* 52'N 75* 42'W > (613)258-3107 <bckcdb at istar.ca> http://pinicola.ca/ > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > --f403045e21e092ab6d05419635fc Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr">I couldn't agree more Lance and you have captured the = reality of "American" perfectly. We all know there is a North Ame= rica and a South America and that many countries are included there. We als= o all know that in the entire world "American" equals "citiz= en of the United States". Let's keep it real.<div>I presume there = have always been one or more Canadian members on the AOU. I have also alway= s suspected that someone was very Canadian, very deferential, very concerne= d about their professional relationships, and also a failure on this specif= ic debate in 1953.</div><div>It is hard to imagine that if the position had= been argued with the passion that it deserved, that the vote would have be= en lost. (Of course, I wasn't there. But I served on many committees in= my day and know how they work.)</div><div>Regards,</div><div>Rick Whitman<= /div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 18 = November 2016 at 12:34, Laviolette, Lance <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"= mailto:lance.laviolette@lmco.com" target=3D"_blank">lance.laviolette@lmco.c= om</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"marg= in:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi Fred,<br> <br> Perisoreus canadensis canadensis, that's a lot of Canadian content pack= ed into one bird. Inevitably a name had to be chosen for the species and Ca= nada Jay could have been the name.=C2=A0 For the majority of Canadians, sub= species are not differentiated but if an English name was needed for P. c. = canadensis subspecies then it could have been Gray Jay.<br> <br> Common names were rarely, if ever, universal so that fact that Wi-akajak, W= =C3=ACsakedj=C3=A0k, W=C4=ABhsakec=C4=81hkw, Wiisagejaak, Inktonme, Nanaboz= ho, Whiskey Jack, Camp Robber, Gray Jay, Meat Bird, White-headed Jay, Orego= n Jay and numerous others have been used to identify this species is not im= portant to this discussion. What is important is that not only is Gray Jay = a bland, non-inspiring choice of an English name for such a great bird but = in its current form it is spelled incorrectly for Canadian consumption. The= French name has it right, M=C3=A9sangeai du Canada and it=E2=80=99s time t= he English name moved out of the last century and into the present one.<br> <br> I have to agree with Wayne. To paraphrase Frodo Baggins, the name was taken= and hidden away, never to be spoken of again. However, like that famous go= ld ring he was speaking of, Canada Jay keeps popping up again in the memory= of Canadian birders.<br> <br> There are few enough birds with Canada as part of their name but a whole lo= t with American. I know it is SUPPOSED to stand for North American but I al= ways imagine American (as in the United States of AMERICA) Ornithologists q= uietly laughing about it behind closed doors. Would bringing the number of = birds with Canada in their name back up to the enormous total of three real= ly be that much of a crime?<br> <br> I'll tell you what=E2=80=A6 why don't we offer an exchange? The AME= RICAN Ornithologists Union can reinstate Canada Jay to its rightful place i= n the pantheon of bird names and we will 'sacrifice' Canada Goose t= o them. They can call the illustrious poop factory Gray Goose or even Ameri= can Goose if they'd like.<br> <br> All the best,<br> <br> Lance<br> <br> Lance Laviolette<br> Glen Robertson, Ontario<br> <br> <br> <br> <br> -----Original Message-----<br> From: <a href=3D"mailto:naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca">naturens-owner@chebu= cto.ns.ca</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca">natu= rens-owner@<wbr>chebucto.ns.ca</a>] On Behalf Of Fred Schueler<br> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2016 9:43 AM<br> To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca<= br> Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [NatureNS] Re: Choice For Our 'National Bird'= ; ...The Gray Jay<br> <br> On 11/18/2016 1:20 AM, Wayne P. Neily wrote:<br> <br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0/ Perisoreus canadensis/, M=C3=A9sangeai du Canada, Canada= Jay, or its<br> > Algonkin name of 'wis-akajak' is a great choice for our nation= al bird,<br> > but let's resist calling it what the AMERICAN Ornithologists'<= br> > Union changed its name to.=C2=A0 They not only stole our name of Canad= a Jay<br> > and hid it, but to add insult to injury, they used the US mis-spelling= <br> > of "grey"!<br> <br> * in the fussing about the loss of 'Canada Jay' as a name, no one m= entions that this was a result of the 1953 decision by the AOU not to have = English names for subspecies. 'Canada Jay' was the name of Perisore= us c. canadansis, which was the subspecies for most of the way across Canad= a, but there's swarms of other nominal subspecies - <a href=3D"https://= en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_jay#Distribution" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_= blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/<wbr>Gray_jay#Distribution</a> - sever= al in Canada, so the English name wasn't ever 'Canada Jay' in v= arious corners of Canada. So the name 'Canada Jay' wasn't stole= n, it was sacrificed to the more-or-less good cause of restricting English = names to species (rather than scrubbing all the nominal subspecies which we= re just based on clinal geographic variation rather than taxon-like geograp= hic breaks in variation).<br> <br> fred.<br> ------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Frederick W. Schueler & Aleta = Karstad<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Fragile Inheritance Natural Histo= ry Daily Paintings - <a href=3D"http://karstaddailypaintings.blogspot.com/"= rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://karstaddailypaintings.<wbr>blo= gspot.com/</a><br> Vulnerable Watersheds - <a href=3D"http://vulnerablewaters.blogspot.ca/" re= l=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://vulnerablewaters.<wbr>blogspot.ca= /</a><br> Mudpuppy Night in Oxford Mills - <a href=3D"http://pinicola.ca/mudpup1.htm"= rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://pinicola.ca/mudpup1.htm</a><br= > 4 St-Lawrence Street Bishops Mills, RR#2 Oxford Station, Ontario K0G 1T0<br= > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 on the Smiths Falls Limestone Plain 44* 52'N 75* 42'W= <br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"tel:%28613%29258-3107" value=3D"+16132583107= ">(613)258-3107</a> <bckcdb at <a href=3D"http://istar.ca" rel=3D"norefe= rrer" target=3D"_blank">istar.ca</a>> <a href=3D"http://pinicola.ca/" re= l=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://pinicola.ca/</a><br> ------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<br> <br> </blockquote></div><br></div> --f403045e21e092ab6d05419635fc--
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