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<div> =C2=A0 They
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Hi Wayne & All,
In the oldest source at hand, Gray's 7th edition; 1908 V. alnifolium=
=20
Marsh is given a correct with V. lantanoides Michhx. as displaced=20
synonym. I was born with no interest in nomenclature but switching names=20
in midlife gets tedious at times and I also wonder why it happens but=20
don't really want to know; yawn.
Dave, Kentville
------ Original Message ------
From: "Wayne P. Neily" <Neilyornis@hotmail.com>
To: "naturens@chebucto.ns.ca" <naturens@chebucto.ns.ca>
Sent: 6/2/2018 12:48:59 PM
Subject: Re: [NatureNS] Flowering Dogwood
>As we change the page to a new month, it is perhaps a good time to=20
>mention that anyone who had a copy of the Blomidon Naturalists' Society=20
>calendar would have immediately recognized Nancy's plant, as we have=20
>been looking at Roy Bishop's fine photo of a hobble-bush in bloom all=20
>the month of May.
>
>
>
>Like David, I grew up knowing that plant as Viburnum alnifolium=20
>Marshall instead of Viburnum lantanoides Michaux.
>
> As someone with an incurable interest in taxonomy and nomenclature, I=20
>am curious as to whether the change was a result of splitting/lumping=20
>of species or whether V. alnifolium was found to be invalid for some=20
>reason. Any botanists out there who want to explain that?
>
>
>
>Wayne Neily
>
>Tremont, NS
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------=
------
>From:naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca <naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca> on=20
>behalf of Doug Linzey <doug@fundymud.com>
>Sent: May 31, 2018 20:52
>To:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca
>Subject: Re: [NatureNS] Flowering Dogwood
>
>Yep. Sure looks like hobble-bush. Definitely not the dogwood leaf.
>
>Doug Linzey
>
>On 31-May-18 10:10 AM, NancyDowd wrote:
> > I was just on the road this morning. Blooming is over (4 days hence).=
=20
>But here are closer views showing the leaves, spent flowers and reddish=20
>stems. Note the plant is along the open edge of this woodsy road,=20
>forest behind and it is the only one along the whole road it seems.
> >=20
>https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605880@N07/28601303478/in/dateposted-publ=
ic/=20
><https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605880@N07/28601303478/in/dateposted-pub=
lic/>
> >=20
>https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605880@N07/27602735257/in/dateposted-publ=
ic/=20
><https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605880@N07/27602735257/in/dateposted-pub=
lic/>
> >
> > Hope this helps clarify its ID. Thanks for all the input.
> >
> > Nancy
> >
> >
> >> On May 31, 2018, at 7:05 AM, Nick Hill <fernhillns@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Totally
> >> The leaves of both are simple but the hobble bush has thicker=20
>textured leaves and this dogwood has smoother leaves with the=20
>distinctive telltale veins of the dogwood.. the veins diverge from the=20
>midrib of the leaf but then follow along the main axis and head to the=20
>tip of the leaf without getting to the leaf margin.
> >>
> >> Flowers of both in clusters. The clusters of hobble bush are flat=20
>and composed of small fertile flowers in the inside that make the=20
>berries and larger sterile flowers like white lobed platters all around=20
>the edge. These attract the insects and make the world go round but=20
>even without insects the berries are produced by self fertilization of=20
>the bisexual flowers...bagging inflorescences showed this. Alternate=20
>leaves dogwood berries go through a metallic blue phase, the hobble a=20
>red phase, and then both end up black.
> >>
> >> Question: I think both are adapted to shade. Hobble bush grows=20
>coarsely when its canopy is cut down and then is food for deer.=20
>Alternate dogwood gets what seems to be a fungus when it is in sheer=20
>sun...what is this fungus that turns the branches orange and kills this=20
>tree?
> >>
> >> On May 30, 2018 11:09 PM, "Doug Linzey" <doug@fundymud.com> wrote:
> >> There still seems to be some uncertainty about species / common=20
>names.
> >> The hobble-bush (Viburnum lantanoides) is an early bloomer, and is
> >> similar to but is not a dogwood (cornus). The hobble-bush on my=20
>property
> >> is just about finished blooming. It tends to live naturally in=20
>forested,
> >> well-shaded areas and readily spreads through stem layering and root
> >> suckering, so you'll often find lots of plants together. The
> >> alternate-leaf dogwood, or pagoda dogwood (Cornus alternifolia), on=20
>the
> >> other hand, is just coming into bloom now. It likes more sun than
> >> hobble-bush and tends to grow larger, with thicker stems, and=20
>cultivated
> >> in a sunny spot can be quite impressive when in bloom. Both shrubs=20
>are
> >> native to Nova Scotia. Their leaves are quite different and=20
>distinctive,
> >> and thus pretty easy to identify.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Doug Linzey
> >>
> >>
> >> On 28-May-18 4:08 AM, NancyDowd wrote:
> >>> Thank you all for the ID help. I was not near enough the bush to=20
>get a good look and was not going to cross the ditch to do so.=20
>Hobblebush must have a long flowering season as I am sure I have noted=20
>it in flower in July as well. A fast grower.
> >>>
> >>> Nancy
> >>>
> >>>> On May 27, 2018, at 9:43 PM, Ian Manning <ianmanning4@gmail.com>=20
>wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Nancy,
> >>>>
> >>>> Re the dogwood, I guess you're thinking of alternate-leaved=20
>dogwood which is pretty common in NS, at least when you're walking in a=20
>good spots. Next time you come across one, take a good look at it. I=20
>find it's the easiest shrub to reliably ID at all times of the year=20
>because of it's flat spreading tier-like branching pattern (there's=20
>probably other shrubs that branch similar but none I can think of) and=20
>at least wherever I've seen, it's always infected with a orange rust=20
>fungus (golden canker of alternate leaved dogwood) on at least one=20
>branch, I can only ever remember seeing one without it, though that's=20
>just my impression from Kings/Annapolis Co, where I do most of my=20
>tromping.
> >>>>
> >>>> Ian
> >>>>
> >>>> On 27 May 2018 at 18:29, David <dwebster@glinx.com> wrote:
> >>>> Hi All,
> >>>> Thanks Ian, for the confirmation. Some species names get=20
>swapped at intervals. Fernald (1950) has V. lantanoides Michx. as a=20
>synonym of V. alnifolium. The constant, as you say, is hobblebush. The=20
>fruit is a good nibble but seldom seen at the right time. It fruits=20
>reliably in a garden setting.
> >>>> Yt, DW, Kentville
> >>>>
> >>>> ------ Original Message ------
> >>>> From: "Ian Manning" <ianmanning4@gmail.com>
> >>>> To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca
> >>>> Sent: 5/27/2018 3:03:18 PM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [NatureNS] Flowering Dogwood
> >>>>
> >>>>> Yep. That=E2=80=99s V. lantanoides name has changed, I call it=20
>hobblebush.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On May 27, 2018, at 12:03 PM, nancy dowd <nancypdowd@gmail.com>=20
>wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> And I see multiple reddish stems I think. So likely not a tree=20
>at all.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Nancy
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Sent from my iPad
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On May 27, 2018, at 10:54 AM, David <dwebster@glinx.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hi Nancy & All,
> >>>>>>> You may be correct because I find photos to be a poor=20
>substitute for the real thing. But this looks more like a very tall=20
>variant of Viburnum alnifolium; usually only knee high.
> >>>>>>> Dogwood is also readily recognized by the bark; as you=20
>might suppose.
> >>>>>>> They do not survive long in dense woodland and are thus=20
>more common along road edges or in small glades generated by windfall=20
>or cutting.
> >>>>>>> Yt, DW, Kentville
> >>>>>>> ------ Original Message ------
> >>>>>>> From: "NancyDowd" <nancypdowd@gmail.com>
> >>>>>>> To: "naturens@chebucto.ns.ca" <naturens@chebucto.ns.ca>
> >>>>>>> Sent: 5/27/2018 9:57:19 AM
> >>>>>>> Subject: [NatureNS] Flowering Dogwood
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Always a random, but happy, encounter when I come across a=20
>Flowering Dogwood tree in the woods. I do not find many of them.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>=20
>https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605880@N07/42385040971/in/dateposted-publ=
ic/=20
><https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605880@N07/42385040971/in/dateposted-pub=
lic/>
> >>>>>>>>=20
>https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605880@N07/42385036071/in/dateposted-publ=
ic/=20
><https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605880@N07/42385036071/in/dateposted-pub=
lic/>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Nancy
> >>>>>>>> E Dalhousie, Kings Co.
> >>
> > .
> >
>
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<body><div>Hi Wayne & All,</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 In the oldest source =
at hand, Gray's 7th edition; 1908 V. alnifolium Marsh is given a correct w=
ith V. lantanoides Michhx. as displaced synonym. I was born with no interes=
t in nomenclature but switching names in midlife gets tedious at times and=
I also wonder why it happens but don't really want to know; yawn.=C2=A0</di=
v><div>Dave, Kentville</div>
<div><br /></div>
<div>------ Original Message ------</div>
<div>From: "Wayne P. Neily" <<a href=3D"mailto:Neilyornis@hotmail.com">N=
eilyornis@hotmail.com</a>></div>
<div>To: "naturens@chebucto.ns.ca" <<a href=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.=
ns.ca">naturens@chebucto.ns.ca</a>></div>
<div>Sent: 6/2/2018 12:48:59 PM</div>
<div>Subject: Re: [NatureNS] Flowering Dogwood</div><div><br /></div>
<div id=3D"x5f973afd7f14420"><blockquote cite=3D"DM5PR16MB14492463FAEC13FC7=
B1EC303D1610@dm5pr16mb1449.namprd16.prod.outlook.com" type=3D"cite" class=
=3D"cite2">
<div id=3D"divtagdefaultwrapper" style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:#000000;font=
-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;" dir=3D"ltr">
<p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">As we change the page to=
a new month, it is perhaps a good time to mention that anyone who had a cop=
y of the Blomidon Naturalists' Society calendar would have immediately reco=
gnized Nancy's plant, as we have been
looking at Roy Bishop's fine photo of a hobble-bush in bloom all the month =
of May.</p>
<p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><br />
</p>
<p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Like David, I grew up kno=
wing that plant as
<em>Viburnum alnifolium</em> Marshall instead of <em>Viburnum lantanoides</=
em> Michaux.<br />
</p>
<p>=C2=A0As someone with an incurable interest in taxonomy and nomenclature=
, I am curious as to whether the change was a result of splitting/lumping o=
f species or whether
<em>V. alnifolium</em>=C2=A0 was found to be invalid for some reason.=C2=A0 =
Any botanists out there who want to explain that?</p>
<p><br />
</p>
<p>Wayne Neily</p>
<p>Tremont, NS<br />
<br />
</p>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"width: 98%; display: inline-block;" />
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Calib=
ri, sans-serif" style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><b>From:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:n=
aturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca">naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca</a> <<a href=
=3D"mailto:naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca">naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca</a>=
> on behalf of Doug Linzey <<a href=3D"mailto:doug@fundymud.com">doug=
@fundymud.com</a>><br />
<b>Sent:</b> May 31, 2018 20:52<br />
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca">naturens@chebucto.ns.=
ca</a><br />
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NatureNS] Flowering Dogwood</font>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"BodyFragment"><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt=
;">
<div class=3D"PlainText">Yep. Sure looks like hobble-bush. Definitely not t=
he dogwood leaf.<br />
<br />
Doug Linzey<br />
<br />
On 31-May-18 10:10 AM, NancyDowd wrote:<br />
> I was just on the road this morning. Blooming is over (4 days hence).=
But here are closer views showing the leaves, spent flowers and reddish ste=
ms. Note the plant is along the open edge of this woodsy road, forest behin=
d and it is the only one along the
whole road it seems.<br />
> <a class=3D"OWAAutoLink" id=3D"LPlnk34083" href=3D"https://www.flickr.=
com/photos/150605880@N07/28601303478/in/dateposted-public/" previewremoved=
=3D"true">
https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605880@N07/28601303478/in/dateposted-publi=
c/</a><br />
> <a class=3D"OWAAutoLink" id=3D"LPlnk1070" href=3D"https://www.flickr.c=
om/photos/150605880@N07/27602735257/in/dateposted-public/" previewremoved=
=3D"true">
https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605880@N07/27602735257/in/dateposted-publi=
c/</a><br />
><br />
> Hope this helps clarify its ID. Thanks for all the input.<br />
><br />
> Nancy<br />
><br />
><br />
>> On May 31, 2018, at 7:05 AM, Nick Hill <<a href=3D"mailto:fernh=
illns@gmail.com">fernhillns@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br />
>><br />
>> Totally<br />
>> The leaves of both are simple but the hobble bush has thicker text=
ured leaves and this dogwood has smoother leaves with the distinctive tellt=
ale veins of the dogwood.. the veins diverge from the midrib of the leaf bu=
t then follow along the main axis and
head to the tip of the leaf without getting to the leaf margin.<br />
>><br />
>> Flowers of both in clusters. The clusters of hobble bush are flat=
and composed of small fertile flowers in the inside that make the berries a=
nd larger sterile flowers like white lobed platters all around the edge. Th=
ese attract the insects and make the world
go round but even without insects the berries are produced by self fertili=
zation of the bisexual flowers...bagging inflorescences showed this. Altern=
ate leaves dogwood berries go through a metallic blue phase, the hobble a r=
ed phase, and then both end up black.<br />
>><br />
>> Question: I think both are adapted to shade. Hobble bush grows coa=
rsely when its canopy is cut down and then is food for deer. Alternate dogw=
ood gets what seems to be a fungus when it is in sheer sun...what is this f=
ungus that turns the branches orange and
kills this tree?<br />
>><br />
>> On May 30, 2018 11:09 PM, "Doug Linzey" <<a href=3D"mailto:doug=
@fundymud.com">doug@fundymud.com</a>> wrote:<br />
>> There still seems to be some uncertainty about species / common na=
mes.<br />
>> The hobble-bush (Viburnum lantanoides) is an early bloomer, and is=
<br />
>> similar to but is not a dogwood (cornus). The hobble-bush on my pr=
operty<br />
>> is just about finished blooming. It tends to live naturally in for=
ested,<br />
>> well-shaded areas and readily spreads through stem layering and ro=
ot<br />
>> suckering, so you'll often find lots of plants together. The<br />
>> alternate-leaf dogwood, or pagoda dogwood (Cornus alternifolia), o=
n the<br />
>> other hand, is just coming into bloom now. It likes more sun than<=
br />
>> hobble-bush and tends to grow larger, with thicker stems, and cult=
ivated<br />
>> in a sunny spot can be quite impressive when in bloom. Both shrubs =
are<br />
>> native to Nova Scotia. Their leaves are quite different and distin=
ctive,<br />
>> and thus pretty easy to identify.<br />
>><br />
>> Cheers,<br />
>> Doug Linzey<br />
>><br />
>><br />
>> On 28-May-18 4:08 AM, NancyDowd wrote:<br />
>>> Thank you all for the ID help. I was not near enough the bush=
to get a good look and was not going to cross the ditch to do so. Hobblebus=
h must have a long flowering season as I am sure I have noted it in flower=
in July as well. A fast grower.<br />
>>><br />
>>> Nancy<br />
>>><br />
>>>> On May 27, 2018, at 9:43 PM, Ian Manning <<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:ianmanning4@gmail.com">ianmanning4@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br />
>>>><br />
>>>> Nancy,<br />
>>>><br />
>>>> Re the dogwood, I guess you're thinking of alternate-leave=
d dogwood which is pretty common in NS, at least when you're walking in a g=
ood spots. Next time you come across one, take a good look at it. I find it=
's the easiest shrub to reliably ID at all times
of the year because of it's flat spreading tier-like branching pattern (th=
ere's probably other shrubs that branch similar but none I can think of) an=
d at least wherever I've seen, it's always infected with a orange rust fung=
us (golden canker of alternate leaved
dogwood) on at least one branch, I can only ever remember seeing one witho=
ut it, though that's just my impression from Kings/Annapolis Co, where I do =
most of my tromping.<br />
>>>><br />
>>>> Ian<br />
>>>><br />
>>>> On 27 May 2018 at 18:29, David <<a href=3D"mailto:dwebs=
ter@glinx.com">dwebster@glinx.com</a>> wrote:<br />
>>>> Hi All,<br />
>>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Thanks Ian, for the co=
nfirmation. Some species names get swapped at intervals. Fernald (1950) has =
V. lantanoides Michx. as a synonym of V. alnifolium. The constant, as you=
say, is hobblebush. The fruit is a good nibble but seldom seen at the right
time. It fruits reliably in a garden setting.<br />
>>>> Yt, DW, Kentville<br />
>>>><br />
>>>> ------ Original Message ------<br />
>>>> From: "Ian Manning" <<a href=3D"mailto:ianmanning4@gmai=
l.com">ianmanning4@gmail.com</a>><br />
>>>> To: <a href=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca">naturens@ch=
ebucto.ns.ca</a><br />
>>>> Sent: 5/27/2018 3:03:18 PM<br />
>>>> Subject: Re: [NatureNS] Flowering Dogwood<br />
>>>><br />
>>>>> Yep. That=E2=80=99s V. lantanoides name has changed, I =
call it hobblebush.<br />
>>>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <br />
>>>>>> On May 27, 2018, at 12:03 PM, nancy dowd <<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:nancypdowd@gmail.com">nancypdowd@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br /=
>
>>>>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <br />
>>>>>> And I see multiple reddish stems I think. So likel=
y not a tree at all.<br />
>>>>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <br />
>>>>>> Nancy<br />
>>>>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <br />
>>>>>> Sent from my iPad<br />
>>>>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <br />
>>>>>>> On May 27, 2018, at 10:54 AM, David <<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:dwebster@glinx.com">dwebster@glinx.com</a>> wrote:<br />
>>>>>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <br />
>>>>>>> Hi Nancy & All,<br />
>>>>>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 You may be correct bec=
ause I find photos to be a poor substitute for the real thing. But this loo=
ks more like a very tall variant of Viburnum alnifolium; usually only knee=
high.<br />
>>>>>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Dogwood is also readil=
y recognized by the bark; as you might suppose.<br />
>>>>>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 They do not survive lo=
ng in dense woodland and are thus more common along road edges or in small=
glades generated by windfall or cutting.<br />
>>>>>>> Yt, DW, Kentville<br />
>>>>>>> ------ Original Message ------<br />
>>>>>>> From: "NancyDowd" <<a href=3D"mailto:nancyp=
dowd@gmail.com">nancypdowd@gmail.com</a>><br />
>>>>>>> To: "<a href=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca=
">naturens@chebucto.ns.ca</a>" <<a href=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.c=
a">naturens@chebucto.ns.ca</a>><br />
>>>>>>> Sent: 5/27/2018 9:57:19 AM<br />
>>>>>>> Subject: [NatureNS] Flowering Dogwood<br />
>>>>>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <br />
>>>>>>>> Always a random, but happy, encounter when =
I come across a Flowering Dogwood tree in the woods. I do not find many of =
them.<br />
>>>>>>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <br />
>>>>>>>> <a class=3D"OWAAutoLink" id=3D"LPlnk283017=
" href=3D"https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605880@N07/42385040971/in/datepo=
sted-public/" previewremoved=3D"true">
https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605880@N07/42385040971/in/dateposted-publi=
c/</a><br />
>>>>>>>> <a class=3D"OWAAutoLink" id=3D"LPlnk759312=
" href=3D"https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605880@N07/42385036071/in/datepo=
sted-public/" previewremoved=3D"true">
https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605880@N07/42385036071/in/dateposted-publi=
c/</a><br />
>>>>>>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <br />
>>>>>>>> Nancy<br />
>>>>>>>> E Dalhousie, Kings Co.<br />
>><br />
> .<br />
><br />
<br />
</div>
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</div>
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