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>>>>>>>> https://www.flickr.com/
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As we change the page to a new month, it is perhaps a good time to mention =
that anyone who had a copy of the Blomidon Naturalists' Society calendar wo=
uld have immediately recognized Nancy's plant, as we have been looking at R=
oy Bishop's fine photo of a hobble-bush in bloom all the month of May.
Like David, I grew up knowing that plant as Viburnum alnifolium Marshall in=
stead of Viburnum lantanoides Michaux.
As someone with an incurable interest in taxonomy and nomenclature, I am c=
urious as to whether the change was a result of splitting/lumping of specie=
s or whether V. alnifolium was found to be invalid for some reason. Any b=
otanists out there who want to explain that?
Wayne Neily
Tremont, NS
________________________________
From: naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca <naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca> on beha=
lf of Doug Linzey <doug@fundymud.com>
Sent: May 31, 2018 20:52
To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: Re: [NatureNS] Flowering Dogwood
Yep. Sure looks like hobble-bush. Definitely not the dogwood leaf.
Doug Linzey
On 31-May-18 10:10 AM, NancyDowd wrote:
> I was just on the road this morning. Blooming is over (4 days hence). But=
here are closer views showing the leaves, spent flowers and reddish stems.=
Note the plant is along the open edge of this woodsy road, forest behind a=
nd it is the only one along the whole road it seems.
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605880@N07/28601303478/in/dateposted-pub=
lic/
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605880@N07/27602735257/in/dateposted-pub=
lic/
>
> Hope this helps clarify its ID. Thanks for all the input.
>
> Nancy
>
>
>> On May 31, 2018, at 7:05 AM, Nick Hill <fernhillns@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Totally
>> The leaves of both are simple but the hobble bush has thicker textured l=
eaves and this dogwood has smoother leaves with the distinctive telltale ve=
ins of the dogwood.. the veins diverge from the midrib of the leaf but then=
follow along the main axis and head to the tip of the leaf without getting=
to the leaf margin.
>>
>> Flowers of both in clusters. The clusters of hobble bush are flat and co=
mposed of small fertile flowers in the inside that make the berries and lar=
ger sterile flowers like white lobed platters all around the edge. These at=
tract the insects and make the world go round but even without insects the =
berries are produced by self fertilization of the bisexual flowers...baggin=
g inflorescences showed this. Alternate leaves dogwood berries go through a=
metallic blue phase, the hobble a red phase, and then both end up black.
>>
>> Question: I think both are adapted to shade. Hobble bush grows coarsely =
when its canopy is cut down and then is food for deer. Alternate dogwood ge=
ts what seems to be a fungus when it is in sheer sun...what is this fungus =
that turns the branches orange and kills this tree?
>>
>> On May 30, 2018 11:09 PM, "Doug Linzey" <doug@fundymud.com> wrote:
>> There still seems to be some uncertainty about species / common names.
>> The hobble-bush (Viburnum lantanoides) is an early bloomer, and is
>> similar to but is not a dogwood (cornus). The hobble-bush on my property
>> is just about finished blooming. It tends to live naturally in forested,
>> well-shaded areas and readily spreads through stem layering and root
>> suckering, so you'll often find lots of plants together. The
>> alternate-leaf dogwood, or pagoda dogwood (Cornus alternifolia), on the
>> other hand, is just coming into bloom now. It likes more sun than
>> hobble-bush and tends to grow larger, with thicker stems, and cultivated
>> in a sunny spot can be quite impressive when in bloom. Both shrubs are
>> native to Nova Scotia. Their leaves are quite different and distinctive,
>> and thus pretty easy to identify.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Doug Linzey
>>
>>
>> On 28-May-18 4:08 AM, NancyDowd wrote:
>>> Thank you all for the ID help. I was not near enough the bush to get a =
good look and was not going to cross the ditch to do so. Hobblebush must ha=
ve a long flowering season as I am sure I have noted it in flower in July a=
s well. A fast grower.
>>>
>>> Nancy
>>>
>>>> On May 27, 2018, at 9:43 PM, Ian Manning <ianmanning4@gmail.com> wrote=
:
>>>>
>>>> Nancy,
>>>>
>>>> Re the dogwood, I guess you're thinking of alternate-leaved dogwood wh=
ich is pretty common in NS, at least when you're walking in a good spots. N=
ext time you come across one, take a good look at it. I find it's the easie=
st shrub to reliably ID at all times of the year because of it's flat sprea=
ding tier-like branching pattern (there's probably other shrubs that branch=
similar but none I can think of) and at least wherever I've seen, it's alw=
ays infected with a orange rust fungus (golden canker of alternate leaved d=
ogwood) on at least one branch, I can only ever remember seeing one without=
it, though that's just my impression from Kings/Annapolis Co, where I do m=
ost of my tromping.
>>>>
>>>> Ian
>>>>
>>>> On 27 May 2018 at 18:29, David <dwebster@glinx.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi All,
>>>> Thanks Ian, for the confirmation. Some species names get swapped=
at intervals. Fernald (1950) has V. lantanoides Michx. as a synonym of V. =
alnifolium. The constant, as you say, is hobblebush. The fruit is a good ni=
bble but seldom seen at the right time. It fruits reliably in a garden sett=
ing.
>>>> Yt, DW, Kentville
>>>>
>>>> ------ Original Message ------
>>>> From: "Ian Manning" <ianmanning4@gmail.com>
>>>> To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca
>>>> Sent: 5/27/2018 3:03:18 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [NatureNS] Flowering Dogwood
>>>>
>>>>> Yep. That=92s V. lantanoides name has changed, I call it hobblebush.
>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 27, 2018, at 12:03 PM, nancy dowd <nancypdowd@gmail.com> wrot=
e:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And I see multiple reddish stems I think. So likely not a tree at al=
l.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nancy
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On May 27, 2018, at 10:54 AM, David <dwebster@glinx.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Nancy & All,
>>>>>>> You may be correct because I find photos to be a poor substitut=
e for the real thing. But this looks more like a very tall variant of Vibur=
num alnifolium; usually only knee high.
>>>>>>> Dogwood is also readily recognized by the bark; as you might su=
ppose.
>>>>>>> They do not survive long in dense woodland and are thus more co=
mmon along road edges or in small glades generated by windfall or cutting.
>>>>>>> Yt, DW, Kentville
>>>>>>> ------ Original Message ------
>>>>>>> From: "NancyDowd" <nancypdowd@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "naturens@chebucto.ns.ca" <naturens@chebucto.ns.ca>
>>>>>>> Sent: 5/27/2018 9:57:19 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: [NatureNS] Flowering Dogwood
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Always a random, but happy, encounter when I come across a Floweri=
ng Dogwood tree in the woods. I do not find many of them.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605880@N07/42385040971/in/datepos=
ted-public/
>>>>>>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605880@N07/42385036071/in/datepos=
ted-public/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nancy
>>>>>>>> E Dalhousie, Kings Co.
>>
> .
>
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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
<style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none;"><!-- P {margin-top:0;margi=
n-bottom:0;} --></style>
</head>
<body dir=3D"ltr">
<div id=3D"divtagdefaultwrapper" style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:#000000;font=
-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;" dir=3D"ltr">
<p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">As we change the page to =
a new month, it is perhaps a good time to mention that anyone who had a cop=
y of the Blomidon Naturalists' Society calendar would have immediately reco=
gnized Nancy's plant, as we have been
looking at Roy Bishop's fine photo of a hobble-bush in bloom all the month=
of May.</p>
<p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><br>
</p>
<p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Like David, I grew up kno=
wing that plant as
<em>Viburnum alnifolium</em> Marshall instead of <em>Viburnum lantanoides</=
em> Michaux.<br>
</p>
<p> As someone with an incurable interest in taxonomy and nomenclature=
, I am curious as to whether the change was a result of splitting/lumping o=
f species or whether
<em>V. alnifolium</em> was found to be invalid for some reason. =
Any botanists out there who want to explain that?</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Wayne Neily</p>
<p>Tremont, NS<br>
<br>
</p>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"width: 98%; display: inline-block;">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Calib=
ri, sans-serif" style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><b>From:</b> naturens-owner@cheb=
ucto.ns.ca <naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca> on behalf of Doug Linzey &=
lt;doug@fundymud.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> May 31, 2018 20:52<br>
<b>To:</b> naturens@chebucto.ns.ca<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NatureNS] Flowering Dogwood</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div class=3D"BodyFragment"><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt=
;">
<div class=3D"PlainText">Yep. Sure looks like hobble-bush. Definitely not t=
he dogwood leaf.<br>
<br>
Doug Linzey<br>
<br>
On 31-May-18 10:10 AM, NancyDowd wrote:<br>
> I was just on the road this morning. Blooming is over (4 days hence). =
But here are closer views showing the leaves, spent flowers and reddish ste=
ms. Note the plant is along the open edge of this woodsy road, forest behin=
d and it is the only one along the
whole road it seems.<br>
> <a class=3D"OWAAutoLink" id=3D"LPlnk34083" href=3D"https://www.flickr.=
com/photos/150605880@N07/28601303478/in/dateposted-public/" previewremoved=
=3D"true">
https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605880@N07/28601303478/in/dateposted-publi=
c/</a><br>
> <a class=3D"OWAAutoLink" id=3D"LPlnk1070" href=3D"https://www.flickr.c=
om/photos/150605880@N07/27602735257/in/dateposted-public/" previewremoved=
=3D"true">
https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605880@N07/27602735257/in/dateposted-publi=
c/</a><br>
><br>
> Hope this helps clarify its ID. Thanks for all the input.<br>
><br>
> Nancy<br>
><br>
><br>
>> On May 31, 2018, at 7:05 AM, Nick Hill <fernhillns@gmail.com>=
; wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Totally<br>
>> The leaves of both are simple but the hobble bush has thicker text=
ured leaves and this dogwood has smoother leaves with the distinctive tellt=
ale veins of the dogwood.. the veins diverge from the midrib of the leaf bu=
t then follow along the main axis and
head to the tip of the leaf without getting to the leaf margin.<br>
>><br>
>> Flowers of both in clusters. The clusters of hobble bush are flat =
and composed of small fertile flowers in the inside that make the berries a=
nd larger sterile flowers like white lobed platters all around the edge. Th=
ese attract the insects and make the world
go round but even without insects the berries are produced by self fertili=
zation of the bisexual flowers...bagging inflorescences showed this. Altern=
ate leaves dogwood berries go through a metallic blue phase, the hobble a r=
ed phase, and then both end up black.<br>
>><br>
>> Question: I think both are adapted to shade. Hobble bush grows coa=
rsely when its canopy is cut down and then is food for deer. Alternate dogw=
ood gets what seems to be a fungus when it is in sheer sun...what is this f=
ungus that turns the branches orange and
kills this tree?<br>
>><br>
>> On May 30, 2018 11:09 PM, "Doug Linzey" <doug@fundymu=
d.com> wrote:<br>
>> There still seems to be some uncertainty about species / common na=
mes.<br>
>> The hobble-bush (Viburnum lantanoides) is an early bloomer, and is=
<br>
>> similar to but is not a dogwood (cornus). The hobble-bush on my pr=
operty<br>
>> is just about finished blooming. It tends to live naturally in for=
ested,<br>
>> well-shaded areas and readily spreads through stem layering and ro=
ot<br>
>> suckering, so you'll often find lots of plants together. The<br>
>> alternate-leaf dogwood, or pagoda dogwood (Cornus alternifolia), o=
n the<br>
>> other hand, is just coming into bloom now. It likes more sun than<=
br>
>> hobble-bush and tends to grow larger, with thicker stems, and cult=
ivated<br>
>> in a sunny spot can be quite impressive when in bloom. Both shrubs=
are<br>
>> native to Nova Scotia. Their leaves are quite different and distin=
ctive,<br>
>> and thus pretty easy to identify.<br>
>><br>
>> Cheers,<br>
>> Doug Linzey<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On 28-May-18 4:08 AM, NancyDowd wrote:<br>
>>> Thank you all for the ID help. I was not near enough the bush =
to get a good look and was not going to cross the ditch to do so. Hobblebus=
h must have a long flowering season as I am sure I have noted it in flower =
in July as well. A fast grower.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Nancy<br>
>>><br>
>>>> On May 27, 2018, at 9:43 PM, Ian Manning <ianmanning4@g=
mail.com> wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Nancy,<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Re the dogwood, I guess you're thinking of alternate-leave=
d dogwood which is pretty common in NS, at least when you're walking in a g=
ood spots. Next time you come across one, take a good look at it. I find it=
's the easiest shrub to reliably ID at all times
of the year because of it's flat spreading tier-like branching pattern (th=
ere's probably other shrubs that branch similar but none I can think of) an=
d at least wherever I've seen, it's always infected with a orange rust fung=
us (golden canker of alternate leaved
dogwood) on at least one branch, I can only ever remember seeing one witho=
ut it, though that's just my impression from Kings/Annapolis Co, where I do=
most of my tromping.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Ian<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On 27 May 2018 at 18:29, David <dwebster@glinx.com> =
wrote:<br>
>>>> Hi All,<br>
>>>> Thanks Ian, for the co=
nfirmation. Some species names get swapped at intervals. Fernald (1950) has=
V. lantanoides Michx. as a synonym of V. alnifolium. The constant, as you =
say, is hobblebush. The fruit is a good nibble but seldom seen at the right
time. It fruits reliably in a garden setting.<br>
>>>> Yt, DW, Kentville<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> ------ Original Message ------<br>
>>>> From: "Ian Manning" <ianmanning4@gmail.com>=
;<br>
>>>> To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca<br>
>>>> Sent: 5/27/2018 3:03:18 PM<br>
>>>> Subject: Re: [NatureNS] Flowering Dogwood<br>
>>>><br>
>>>>> Yep. That=92s V. lantanoides name has changed, I call =
it hobblebush.<br>
>>>>> <br>
>>>>>> On May 27, 2018, at 12:03 PM, nancy dowd <nancy=
pdowd@gmail.com> wrote:<br>
>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>> And I see multiple reddish stems I think. So likel=
y not a tree at all.<br>
>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>> Nancy<br>
>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPad<br>
>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> On May 27, 2018, at 10:54 AM, David <dwebst=
er@glinx.com> wrote:<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>> Hi Nancy & All,<br>
>>>>>>> You may be correct bec=
ause I find photos to be a poor substitute for the real thing. But this loo=
ks more like a very tall variant of Viburnum alnifolium; usually only knee =
high.<br>
>>>>>>> Dogwood is also readil=
y recognized by the bark; as you might suppose.<br>
>>>>>>> They do not survive lo=
ng in dense woodland and are thus more common along road edges or in small =
glades generated by windfall or cutting.<br>
>>>>>>> Yt, DW, Kentville<br>
>>>>>>> ------ Original Message ------<br>
>>>>>>> From: "NancyDowd" <nancypdowd@gma=
il.com><br>
>>>>>>> To: "naturens@chebucto.ns.ca" <na=
turens@chebucto.ns.ca><br>
>>>>>>> Sent: 5/27/2018 9:57:19 AM<br>
>>>>>>> Subject: [NatureNS] Flowering Dogwood<br>
>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>>> Always a random, but happy, encounter when=
I come across a Flowering Dogwood tree in the woods. I do not find many of=
them.<br>
>>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>>> <a class=3D"OWAAutoLink" id=3D"LPlnk283017=
" href=3D"https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605880@N07/42385040971/in/datepo=
sted-public/" previewremoved=3D"true">
https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605880@N07/42385040971/in/dateposted-publi=
c/</a><br>
>>>>>>>> <a class=3D"OWAAutoLink" id=3D"LPlnk759312=
" href=3D"https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605880@N07/42385036071/in/datepo=
sted-public/" previewremoved=3D"true">
https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605880@N07/42385036071/in/dateposted-publi=
c/</a><br>
>>>>>>>> <br>
>>>>>>>> Nancy<br>
>>>>>>>> E Dalhousie, Kings Co.<br>
>><br>
> .<br>
><br>
<br>
</div>
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