[NatureNS] Flowering Dogwood

DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hotmail.com;
From: "Wayne P. Neily" <Neilyornis@hotmail.com>
To: "naturens@chebucto.ns.ca" <naturens@chebucto.ns.ca>
Thread-Topic: [NatureNS] Flowering Dogwood
Thread-Index: AQHT9nD17UeavX6l6kGn1z5IumdreaRJEwgAgACOA4CAADN5gIAAs4uAgAJ/o+w=
Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2018 15:48:59 +0000
References: <FB3BF7B3-BF47-48A4-9739-CB7AB5CEED4B@gmail.com>
Accept-Language: en-CA, en-US
received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: hotmail.com does not designate
authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is )
Precedence: bulk
Return-Path: <naturens-mml-owner@chebucto.ns.ca>
Original-Recipient: rfc822;"| (cd /csuite/info/Environment/FNSN/MList; /csuite/lib/arch2html)"

next message in archive
no next message in thread
previous message in archive
previous message in thread
Index of Subjects

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; https://www.flickr.com/
--_000_DM5PR16MB14492463FAEC13FC7B1EC303D1610DM5PR16MB1449namp_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

As we change the page to a new month, it is perhaps a good time to mention =
that anyone who had a copy of the Blomidon Naturalists' Society calendar wo=
uld have immediately recognized Nancy's plant, as we have been looking at R=
oy Bishop's fine photo of a hobble-bush in bloom all the month of May.


Like David, I grew up knowing that plant as Viburnum alnifolium Marshall in=
stead of Viburnum lantanoides Michaux.

 As someone with an incurable interest in taxonomy and nomenclature, I am c=
urious as to whether the change was a result of splitting/lumping of specie=
s or whether V. alnifolium  was found to be invalid for some reason.  Any b=
otanists out there who want to explain that?


Wayne Neily

Tremont, NS


________________________________
From: naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca <naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca> on beha=
lf of Doug Linzey <doug@fundymud.com>
Sent: May 31, 2018 20:52
To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: Re: [NatureNS] Flowering Dogwood

Yep. Sure looks like hobble-bush. Definitely not the dogwood leaf.

Doug Linzey

On 31-May-18 10:10 AM, NancyDowd wrote:
> I was just on the road this morning. Blooming is over (4 days hence). But=
 here are closer views showing the leaves, spent flowers and reddish stems.=
 Note the plant is along the open edge of this woodsy road, forest behind a=
nd it is the only one along the whole road it seems.
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605880@N07/28601303478/in/dateposted-pub=
lic/
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605880@N07/27602735257/in/dateposted-pub=
lic/
>
> Hope this helps clarify its ID. Thanks for all the input.
>
> Nancy
>
>
>> On May 31, 2018, at 7:05 AM, Nick Hill <fernhillns@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Totally
>> The leaves of both are simple but the hobble bush has thicker textured l=
eaves and this dogwood has smoother leaves with the distinctive telltale ve=
ins of the dogwood.. the veins diverge from the midrib of the leaf but then=
 follow along the main axis and head to the tip of the leaf without getting=
 to the leaf margin.
>>
>> Flowers of both in clusters. The clusters of hobble bush are flat and co=
mposed of small fertile flowers in the inside that make the berries and lar=
ger sterile flowers like white lobed platters all around the edge. These at=
tract the insects and make the world go round but even without insects the =
berries are produced by self fertilization of the bisexual flowers...baggin=
g inflorescences showed this. Alternate leaves dogwood berries go through a=
 metallic blue phase, the hobble a red phase, and then both end up black.
>>
>> Question: I think both are adapted to shade. Hobble bush grows coarsely =
when its canopy is cut down and then is food for deer. Alternate dogwood ge=
ts what seems to be a fungus when it is in sheer sun...what is this fungus =
that turns the branches orange and kills this tree?
>>
>> On May 30, 2018 11:09 PM, "Doug Linzey" <doug@fundymud.com> wrote:
>> There still seems to be some uncertainty about species / common names.
>> The hobble-bush (Viburnum lantanoides) is an early bloomer, and is
>> similar to but is not a dogwood (cornus). The hobble-bush on my property
>> is just about finished blooming. It tends to live naturally in forested,
>> well-shaded areas and readily spreads through stem layering and root
>> suckering, so you'll often find lots of plants together. The
>> alternate-leaf dogwood, or pagoda dogwood (Cornus alternifolia), on the
>> other hand, is just coming into bloom now. It likes more sun than
>> hobble-bush and tends to grow larger, with thicker stems, and cultivated
>> in a sunny spot can be quite impressive when in bloom. Both shrubs are
>> native to Nova Scotia. Their leaves are quite different and distinctive,
>> and thus pretty easy to identify.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Doug Linzey
>>
>>
>> On 28-May-18 4:08 AM, NancyDowd wrote:
>>> Thank you all for the ID help. I was not near enough the bush to get a =
good look and was not going to cross the ditch to do so. Hobblebush must ha=
ve a long flowering season as I am sure I have noted it in flower in July a=
s well. A fast grower.
>>>
>>> Nancy
>>>
>>>> On May 27, 2018, at 9:43 PM, Ian Manning <ianmanning4@gmail.com> wrote=
:
>>>>
>>>> Nancy,
>>>>
>>>> Re the dogwood, I guess you're thinking of alternate-leaved dogwood wh=
ich is pretty common in NS, at least when you're walking in a good spots. N=
ext time you come across one, take a good look at it. I find it's the easie=
st shrub to reliably ID at all times of the year because of it's flat sprea=
ding tier-like branching pattern (there's probably other shrubs that branch=
 similar but none I can think of) and at least wherever I've seen, it's alw=
ays infected with a orange rust fungus (golden canker of alternate leaved d=
ogwood) on at least one branch, I can only ever remember seeing one without=
 it, though that's just my impression from Kings/Annapolis Co, where I do m=
ost of my tromping.
>>>>
>>>> Ian
>>>>
>>>> On 27 May 2018 at 18:29, David <dwebster@glinx.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>       Thanks Ian, for the confirmation. Some species names get swapped=
 at intervals. Fernald (1950) has V. lantanoides Michx. as a synonym of V. =
alnifolium. The constant, as you say, is hobblebush. The fruit is a good ni=
bble but seldom seen at the right time. It fruits reliably in a garden sett=
ing.
>>>> Yt, DW, Kentville
>>>>
>>>> ------ Original Message ------
>>>> From: "Ian Manning" <ianmanning4@gmail.com>
>>>> To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca
>>>> Sent: 5/27/2018 3:03:18 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [NatureNS] Flowering Dogwood
>>>>
>>>>> Yep. That=92s V. lantanoides name has changed, I call it hobblebush.
>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 27, 2018, at 12:03 PM, nancy dowd <nancypdowd@gmail.com> wrot=
e:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And I see multiple reddish stems I think. So likely not a tree at al=
l.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nancy
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On May 27, 2018, at 10:54 AM, David <dwebster@glinx.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Nancy & All,
>>>>>>>     You may be correct because I find photos to be a poor substitut=
e for the real thing. But this looks more like a very tall variant of Vibur=
num alnifolium; usually only knee high.
>>>>>>>     Dogwood is also readily recognized by the bark; as you might su=
ppose.
>>>>>>>     They do not survive long in dense woodland and are thus more co=
mmon along road edges or in small glades generated by windfall or cutting.
>>>>>>> Yt, DW, Kentville
>>>>>>> ------ Original Message ------
>>>>>>> From: "NancyDowd" <nancypdowd@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "naturens@chebucto.ns.ca" <naturens@chebucto.ns.ca>
>>>>>>> Sent: 5/27/2018 9:57:19 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: [NatureNS] Flowering Dogwood
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Always a random, but happy, encounter when I come across a Floweri=
ng Dogwood tree in the woods. I do not find many of them.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605880@N07/42385040971/in/datepos=
ted-public/
>>>>>>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605880@N07/42385036071/in/datepos=
ted-public/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nancy
>>>>>>>> E Dalhousie, Kings Co.
>>
> .
>


--_000_DM5PR16MB14492463FAEC13FC7B1EC303D1610DM5PR16MB1449namp_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
<style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none;"><!-- P {margin-top:0;margi=
n-bottom:0;} --></style>
</head>
<body dir=3D"ltr">
<div id=3D"divtagdefaultwrapper" style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:#000000;font=
-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;" dir=3D"ltr">
<p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">As we change the page to =
a new month, it is perhaps a good time to mention that anyone who had a cop=
y of the Blomidon Naturalists' Society calendar would have immediately reco=
gnized Nancy's plant, as we have been
 looking at Roy Bishop's fine photo of a hobble-bush in bloom all the month=
 of May.</p>
<p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><br>
</p>
<p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Like David, I grew up kno=
wing that plant as
<em>Viburnum alnifolium</em> Marshall instead of <em>Viburnum lantanoides</=
em> Michaux.<br>
</p>
<p>&nbsp;As someone with an incurable interest in taxonomy and nomenclature=
, I am curious as to whether the change was a result of splitting/lumping o=
f species or whether
<em>V. alnifolium</em>&nbsp; was found to be invalid for some reason.&nbsp;=
 Any botanists out there who want to explain that?</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Wayne Neily</p>
<p>Tremont, NS<br>
<br>
</p>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"width: 98%; display: inline-block;">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Calib=
ri, sans-serif" style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><b>From:</b> naturens-owner@cheb=
ucto.ns.ca &lt;naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca&gt; on behalf of Doug Linzey &=
lt;doug@fundymud.com&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> May 31, 2018 20:52<br>
<b>To:</b> naturens@chebucto.ns.ca<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NatureNS] Flowering Dogwood</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"BodyFragment"><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt=
;">
<div class=3D"PlainText">Yep. Sure looks like hobble-bush. Definitely not t=
he dogwood leaf.<br>
<br>
Doug Linzey<br>
<br>
On 31-May-18 10:10 AM, NancyDowd wrote:<br>
&gt; I was just on the road this morning. Blooming is over (4 days hence). =
But here are closer views showing the leaves, spent flowers and reddish ste=
ms. Note the plant is along the open edge of this woodsy road, forest behin=
d and it is the only one along the
 whole road it seems.<br>
&gt; <a class=3D"OWAAutoLink" id=3D"LPlnk34083" href=3D"https://www.flickr.=
com/photos/150605880@N07/28601303478/in/dateposted-public/" previewremoved=
=3D"true">
https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605880@N07/28601303478/in/dateposted-publi=
c/</a><br>
&gt; <a class=3D"OWAAutoLink" id=3D"LPlnk1070" href=3D"https://www.flickr.c=
om/photos/150605880@N07/27602735257/in/dateposted-public/" previewremoved=
=3D"true">
https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605880@N07/27602735257/in/dateposted-publi=
c/</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hope this helps clarify its ID. Thanks for all the input.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Nancy<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; On May 31, 2018, at 7:05 AM, Nick Hill &lt;fernhillns@gmail.com&gt=
; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Totally<br>
&gt;&gt; The leaves of both are simple but the hobble bush has thicker text=
ured leaves and this dogwood has smoother leaves with the distinctive tellt=
ale veins of the dogwood.. the veins diverge from the midrib of the leaf bu=
t then follow along the main axis and
 head to the tip of the leaf without getting to the leaf margin.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Flowers of both in clusters. The clusters of hobble bush are flat =
and composed of small fertile flowers in the inside that make the berries a=
nd larger sterile flowers like white lobed platters all around the edge. Th=
ese attract the insects and make the world
 go round but even without insects the berries are produced by self fertili=
zation of the bisexual flowers...bagging inflorescences showed this. Altern=
ate leaves dogwood berries go through a metallic blue phase, the hobble a r=
ed phase, and then both end up black.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Question: I think both are adapted to shade. Hobble bush grows coa=
rsely when its canopy is cut down and then is food for deer. Alternate dogw=
ood gets what seems to be a fungus when it is in sheer sun...what is this f=
ungus that turns the branches orange and
 kills this tree?<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; On May 30, 2018 11:09 PM, &quot;Doug Linzey&quot; &lt;doug@fundymu=
d.com&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; There still seems to be some uncertainty about species / common na=
mes.<br>
&gt;&gt; The hobble-bush (Viburnum lantanoides) is an early bloomer, and is=
<br>
&gt;&gt; similar to but is not a dogwood (cornus). The hobble-bush on my pr=
operty<br>
&gt;&gt; is just about finished blooming. It tends to live naturally in for=
ested,<br>
&gt;&gt; well-shaded areas and readily spreads through stem layering and ro=
ot<br>
&gt;&gt; suckering, so you'll often find lots of plants together. The<br>
&gt;&gt; alternate-leaf dogwood, or pagoda dogwood (Cornus alternifolia), o=
n the<br>
&gt;&gt; other hand, is just coming into bloom now. It likes more sun than<=
br>
&gt;&gt; hobble-bush and tends to grow larger, with thicker stems, and cult=
ivated<br>
&gt;&gt; in a sunny spot can be quite impressive when in bloom. Both shrubs=
 are<br>
&gt;&gt; native to Nova Scotia. Their leaves are quite different and distin=
ctive,<br>
&gt;&gt; and thus pretty easy to identify.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Cheers,<br>
&gt;&gt; Doug Linzey<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; On 28-May-18 4:08 AM, NancyDowd wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Thank you all for the ID help. I was not near enough the bush =
to get a good look and was not going to cross the ditch to do so. Hobblebus=
h must have a long flowering season as I am sure I have noted it in flower =
in July as well. A fast grower.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Nancy<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On May 27, 2018, at 9:43 PM, Ian Manning &lt;ianmanning4@g=
mail.com&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Nancy,<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Re the dogwood, I guess you're thinking of alternate-leave=
d dogwood which is pretty common in NS, at least when you're walking in a g=
ood spots. Next time you come across one, take a good look at it. I find it=
's the easiest shrub to reliably ID at all times
 of the year because of it's flat spreading tier-like branching pattern (th=
ere's probably other shrubs that branch similar but none I can think of) an=
d at least wherever I've seen, it's always infected with a orange rust fung=
us (golden canker of alternate leaved
 dogwood) on at least one branch, I can only ever remember seeing one witho=
ut it, though that's just my impression from Kings/Annapolis Co, where I do=
 most of my tromping.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Ian<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On 27 May 2018 at 18:29, David &lt;dwebster@glinx.com&gt; =
wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi All,<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Thanks Ian, for the co=
nfirmation. Some species names get swapped at intervals. Fernald (1950) has=
 V. lantanoides Michx. as a synonym of V. alnifolium. The constant, as you =
say, is hobblebush. The fruit is a good nibble but seldom seen at the right
 time. It fruits reliably in a garden setting.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Yt, DW, Kentville<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ------ Original Message ------<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: &quot;Ian Manning&quot; &lt;ianmanning4@gmail.com&gt=
;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: 5/27/2018 3:03:18 PM<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [NatureNS] Flowering Dogwood<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Yep. That=92s V. lantanoides name has changed, I call =
it hobblebush.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On May 27, 2018, at 12:03 PM, nancy dowd &lt;nancy=
pdowd@gmail.com&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; And I see multiple reddish stems I think. So likel=
y not a tree at all.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Nancy<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent from my iPad<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On May 27, 2018, at 10:54 AM, David &lt;dwebst=
er@glinx.com&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi Nancy &amp; All,<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; You may be correct bec=
ause I find photos to be a poor substitute for the real thing. But this loo=
ks more like a very tall variant of Viburnum alnifolium; usually only knee =
high.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Dogwood is also readil=
y recognized by the bark; as you might suppose.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; They do not survive lo=
ng in dense woodland and are thus more common along road edges or in small =
glades generated by windfall or cutting.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Yt, DW, Kentville<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ------ Original Message ------<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: &quot;NancyDowd&quot; &lt;nancypdowd@gma=
il.com&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: &quot;naturens@chebucto.ns.ca&quot; &lt;na=
turens@chebucto.ns.ca&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: 5/27/2018 9:57:19 AM<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: [NatureNS] Flowering Dogwood<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Always a random, but happy, encounter when=
 I come across a Flowering Dogwood tree in the woods. I do not find many of=
 them.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a class=3D"OWAAutoLink" id=3D"LPlnk283017=
" href=3D"https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605880@N07/42385040971/in/datepo=
sted-public/" previewremoved=3D"true">
https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605880@N07/42385040971/in/dateposted-publi=
c/</a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a class=3D"OWAAutoLink" id=3D"LPlnk759312=
" href=3D"https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605880@N07/42385036071/in/datepo=
sted-public/" previewremoved=3D"true">
https://www.flickr.com/photos/150605880@N07/42385036071/in/dateposted-publi=
c/</a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Nancy<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; E Dalhousie, Kings Co.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; .<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
</div>
</span></font></div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_DM5PR16MB14492463FAEC13FC7B1EC303D1610DM5PR16MB1449namp_--

next message in archive
no next message in thread
previous message in archive
previous message in thread
Index of Subjects