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desirable.<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Meanwhil --Apple-Mail-154-407935002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Actually a system like the one in place in Germany and New Zealand =20 would likely work very well in Canada. About half fo the seats are =20 done as they are now, so that each riding has a member in the house. =20 The remaining seats are filled by each party based on percentage of =20 votes. As more are more people move into cities, rural ridings are =20 already becoming less and less relevant with the existing system=85 On Apr 15, 2011, at 9:55 PM, Darrell wrote: > Proportional representation is a socialist dream to fully control =20 > the country side with urban views. Next will be collective farms and =20= > as they say in the Ukraine... The buds of socialism are when babies =20= > are suckling on the cold nipples of their dead mothers. No thanks! > > Lets get back to nature. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David & Alison Webster > To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca > Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 7:23 PM > Subject: Re: [NatureNS] Dealing with politicians > > Hi Doug & All, Apr 15, 2011 > I will have to jump in here also. > > I think your approach is unsound for three reasons. > > 1) Free votes, in which a local MP can vote against party policy, =20 > are as > scarce as hen's teeth. The elected MP is just a vote token, his =20 > opinion has > no clout so why should it count during an election ? > > 2) And if your local candidate is loyal to party lines why should one > suppose that the party platform is not written on water ? Remember =20 > Halloween > 2006 ? As in-- Conservative federal election platform Jan 31, 2006 "A > Conservative government will....Stop the Liberal attack on retirement > savings and preserve income trusts by not imposing any new taxes on =20= > them." > By Oct 31, 2006 Finance Minister Jim Flaherty had realized that not > imposing new taxes on income trusts would be "...a very bad thing for > Canada." And speaking of trust, that is the key to chosing between =20 > parties; > who can you trust more than the rest ? > > 3) We have a vote-counting process well suited for two and only two > parties. With 4.5 parties in the field, the elected party is almost =20= > certain > to not have a clear majority and therefore not be well enabled to =20 > reflect > majority opinion. This limitation can, in theory, be offset to some =20= > degree > if two or more opposition parties vote against something but, in =20 > practice, > the party with the largest war chest can ignore the vote and proceed =20= > as > though it never happened. > > Someday, somehow; proportion representation may come into being =20= > and, > failing that, the truth may eventually emerge that coalitions are =20 > legal, > sensible and desirable. > > Meanwhile, when something is as simple as ABC, why make it =20 > complicated ? > > Yt, Dave Webster, Kentville =3D=20 =3D=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Patrick Kelly Director of Computer Facilities =3D=20 =3D=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Faculty of Architecture and Planning Dalhousie University =3D=20 =3D=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D PO Box 1000 Stn Central 5410 Spring Garden Road Halifax, Nova Scotia B3J 2X4 Halifax, Nova Scotia B3J 2X4 Canada Canada =3D=20 =3D=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Phone:(902) 494-3294 FAX:(902) 423-6672 E-mail:patrick.kelly@dal.ca =3D=20 =3D=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D --Apple-Mail-154-407935002 Content-Type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; = -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Actually a system like the one = in place in Germany and New Zealand would likely work very well in = Canada. About half fo the seats are done as they are now, so that each = riding has a member in the house. The remaining seats are filled by each = party based on percentage of votes. As more are more people move into = cities, rural ridings are already becoming less and less relevant with = the existing system=85<div><br><div><div>On Apr 15, 2011, at 9:55 PM, = Darrell wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: = separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: = normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: = normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: = 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: = 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: = auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div = bgcolor=3D"#ffffff"><div><em><font size=3D"4">Proportional = representation is a socialist dream to fully control the country = side with urban views. Next will be collective farms and as they = say in the Ukraine... The buds of socialism are when babies are suckling = on the cold nipples of their dead mothers. <span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></font></em><em><font = size=3D"4">No thanks!</font></em></div><div><em><font = size=3D"4"></font></em> </div><div><em><font size=3D"4">Lets get = back to nature.</font></em></div><div><em><font = size=3D"4"></font></em> </div><blockquote style=3D"border-left-color:= rgb(0, 0, 0); border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid; = padding-left: 5px; padding-right: 0px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: = 0px; "><div style=3D"font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; = ">----- Original Message -----</div><div style=3D"font: normal normal = normal 10pt/normal arial; background-image: initial; = background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; = background-clip: initial; background-color: rgb(228, 228, 228); = background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial = initial; "><b>From:</b><span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a = title=3D"dwebster@glinx.com" href=3D"mailto:dwebster@glinx.com">David = & Alison Webster</a></div><div style=3D"font: normal normal normal = 10pt/normal arial; "><b>To:</b><span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a = title=3D"naturens@chebucto.ns.ca" = href=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca">naturens@chebucto.ns.ca</a></div><= div style=3D"font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; = "><b>Sent:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, = April 15, 2011 7:23 PM</div><div style=3D"font: normal normal normal = 10pt/normal arial; "><b>Subject:</b><span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [NatureNS] Dealing with = politicians</div><div><br></div>Hi Doug & = All, &nbs= p; Apr 15, 2011<br> I will have to = jump in here also.<br><br> I think your approach is = unsound for three reasons.<br><br>1) Free votes, in which a local MP can = vote against party policy, are as<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>scarce as hen's teeth. = The elected MP is just a vote token, his opinion has<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>no clout so why should = it count during an election ?<br><br>2) And if your local candidate is = loyal to party lines why should one<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>suppose that the party = platform is not written on water ? Remember Halloween<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>2006 ? As in-- = Conservative federal election platform Jan 31, 2006 "A<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>Conservative government = will....Stop the Liberal attack on retirement<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>savings and preserve = income trusts by not imposing any new taxes on them."<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>By Oct 31, 2006 Finance = Minister Jim Flaherty had realized that not<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>imposing new taxes on = income trusts would be "...a very bad thing for<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>Canada." And speaking = of trust, that is the key to chosing between parties;<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>who can you trust more = than the rest ?<br><br>3) We have a vote-counting process well = suited for two and only two<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>parties. With 4.5 = parties in the field, the elected party is almost certain<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>to not have a clear = majority and therefore not be well enabled to reflect<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>majority opinion. This = limitation can, in theory, be offset to some degree<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>if two or more = opposition parties vote against something but, in practice,<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>the party with the = largest war chest can ignore the vote and proceed as<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>though it never = happened.<br><br> Someday, somehow; proportion = representation may come into being and,<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>failing that, the truth = may eventually emerge that coalitions are legal,<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>sensible and = desirable.<br><br> Meanwhile, when something is as = simple as ABC, why make it complicated ?<br><br>Yt, Dave Webster, = Kentville<br></blockquote></div></span></blockquote></div><br><div = apple-content-edited=3D"true"> <span class=3D"Apple-style-span" = style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: = normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; = text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: = 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: = auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><p = style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; = margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: = normal normal normal 12px/normal Courier; "><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</font></p><p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; = margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font = face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: normal normal normal = 12px/normal Courier; ">Patrick Kelly</font></p><p style=3D"margin-top: = 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font = face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: normal normal normal = 12px/normal Courier; ">Director of Computer Facilities</font></p><p = style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; = margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: = normal normal normal 12px/normal Courier; = ">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= </font></p><p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; = margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" = style=3D"font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Courier; ">Faculty of = Architecture and Planning</font></p><p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; = margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font = face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: normal normal normal = 12px/normal Courier; ">Dalhousie University</font></p><p = style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; = margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: = normal normal normal 12px/normal Courier; = ">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= </font></p><p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; = margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" = style=3D"font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Courier; ">PO Box 1000 = Stn Central<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> = <span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>5410 Spring Garden = Road</font></p><p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; = margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" = style=3D"font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Courier; ">Halifax, Nova = Scotia B3J 2X4<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> <span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Halifax, Nova Scotia = B3J 2X4</font></p><p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; = margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" = style=3D"font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Courier; ">Canada<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> = = <span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Canada</font></p><p = style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; = margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: = normal normal normal 12px/normal Courier; = ">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= </font></p><p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; = margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" = style=3D"font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Courier; ">Phone:(902) = 494-3294<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> <span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>FAX:(902) = 423-6672<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> <span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>E-mail:<a = href=3D"mailto:patrick.kelly@dal.ca">patrick.kelly@dal.ca</a></font></p><p= style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; = margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: = normal normal normal 12px/normal Courier; = ">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= </font></p></span> </div><br></div></body></html>= --Apple-Mail-154-407935002--
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