[NatureNS] two trees to buy a pizza or would we rather a car with

From: Donna Crossland <dcrossland@eastlink.ca>
To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca
References: <076901d1620d$b73dc2b0$25b94810$@ca>
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2016 22:17:30 -0400
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Very interesting discussions.  Almost no one mentioned the favourable =
idea of buying an entire vehicle from two trees rather than a pizza.  I =
suppose it was a favourable thought to all.

=20

The more thought-provoking discussion re: flood plains and wind throw- =
some quick thoughts before bed:

Red maple flood plains!!    There=E2=80=99s a beautiful example at =
Jake=E2=80=99s Landing, Keji.    Many such areas were =
=E2=80=98hayed=E2=80=99.

=20

It is well known that riparian zones were the first to be logged for ton =
(square timber) and later saw logs.   Ton timber consisted largely of =
white pine, but also a surprising amount of large, straight yellow birch =
(called black birch back then due to its advanced age and exterior =
characteristics).  Riparian zones also were the first areas to be =
stripped of trees for agricultural lands.   Rivers were the highways...  =
 Of course flood plains were converted to agriculture.  People tilled =
the richest soils first.   (Ask the Acadians.  There were numerous =
families along the Annapolis and elsewhere.)  Trying to feed a family on =
the harvests from poor soils (from conifer stands or poor geology) would =
have been very risky in the 1700-1800s, with no welfare and no =
Superstore nearby.

=20

I=E2=80=99ve just spent a good deal of energy trying to encourage some =
trees to re-grow along my tiny piece of land on the Annapolis River, =
long ago stripped of trees and the soils tilled for agriculture.  =
Unfortunately, the grass now makes it nearly impossible for trees to =
re-establish and banks are now slumping into the river at alarming =
speed, brought on partly due to the instability of early tree removal.  =
I just watched the slow death of a tall, remaining elm on the banks last =
summer.  Most of the elm have already fallen into the river.  Very sad.  =


=20

Species of tree roots are not all the same.  Shallow roots of spruce and =
balsam fir are not very valuable as nutrient pumps (and blow over very =
easily), but hardwoods and the tap roots of pine are another story.  I =
knew a friend who planted ginseng under sugar maple.  At night the great =
sugar maples pumped water (and nutrients) from down deep to the surface. =
 The ginseng flourished.

=20

Flood plains can receive soil enrichment from both sediments during =
flooding and from deep rooted trees that may line riparian communities =
where conditions are right.  Too much water=3D grasses, sedges, maybe =
ericaceous, okay,... but periodic flooding is just fine for some trees.

=20

I suppose I=E2=80=99ll never get to see blue cohosh, but I=E2=80=99d =
like to.  We lost our richest hardwoods so long ago, it is difficult to =
imagine what the Annapolis Valley must have been like.  A =
botanist=E2=80=99s dream.

=20

From: naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca =
[mailto:naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca] On Behalf Of Nicholas Hill
Sent: February-08-16 7:42 PM
To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca
Subject: Re: [NatureNS] two trees to buy a pizza or would we rather a =
car with the same two trees?

=20

as you will

=20

=20

=20

=20

On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 5:06 PM, David & Alison Webster =
<dwebster@glinx.com> wrote:

Nick,

   I am not aware of any ot these places being wooded then and =
subsequently converted to agriculture. I do recall collecting in =
hardwoods on Salmon ancient floodplains, well above 50s flood levels, =
soon to be stripped for gravel; not agriculture.

    Meadows which frequently flood in summer and are nearly always =
flooded over winter don't support trees.

DW=20

=20

----- Original Message -----=20

From: Nicholas Hill <mailto:fernhillns@gmail.com> =20

To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca=20

Sent: Monday, February 08, 2016 3:47 PM

Subject: Re: [NatureNS] two trees to buy a pizza or would we rather a =
car with the same two trees?

=20

 you guys back in the EC Smith days covered the province...=20

Oxford's R Phillip, Meander, Kennetcook, Gaspereau

Salmon...we can go on and we should

=20

Wherever it was fertile

=20

=20

=20

On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 3:25 PM, David & Alison Webster =
<dwebster@glinx.com> wrote:

Hi Nick,

    Where were floodplains converted to agriculture in NS ? A smattering =
in NB but none is NS that I am aware of. Some Salmon River floodplains =
were mined for gravel when the 100 series highways were built near there =
and I think some floodplains near Oxford were mined.=20

    Floodplains are enriched by the silt deposited by floodwaters each =
year; e.g. Nile, Tigrus not by trees which may take advantage of the =
enriched soil.

Yt, DW

----- Original Message -----=20

From: Nicholas Hill <mailto:fernhillns@gmail.com> =20

To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca=20

Sent: Monday, February 08, 2016 2:53 PM

Subject: Re: [NatureNS] two trees to buy a pizza or would we rather a =
car with the same two trees?

=20

Hey John

yes tree roots are purported to be amazing N and P pumps and can take up =
nutrients before they reach waterways..90% range according to Maltby who =
was working on big rivers of Europe.

when you lose trees you lose these pumps and go to lower functional =
states and herbaceous plants arent a lick on trees.

=20

The tree was an engineer of floodplains in big ways and we lost a lot of =
that when we converted floodplain for agriculture. This floodplain =
forest is what supports a good group of the Appalachian Deciduous Forest =
species..bloodroot, blue cohosh Canada violet (?) wild coffee, Canada =
Lily, wild garlic, yellow violets, toothwort, Solomon's plume..and this =
is the habitat we need right now to let us preserve the diversity that =
is expanding northward and may be eliminated from Kentucky in time. I'm =
looking forward to being able to eat pawpaws, crush spicebush leaves and =
swing on forest grape vines in my nineties in Nova Scotia but first we =
need to secure and restore floodplain habitat.

=20

must be midwinter=20

=20

=20

On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 2:05 PM, David & Alison Webster =
<dwebster@glinx.com> wrote:

Hi John & All,

    Any deep-rooted plant will move nutrients to the surface if that is =
what you mean. Grasses are in general better than trees because their =
fine roots can penetrate the pores of rigid soils not accessible to tree =
roots. This is why Agropyron repens (Couch) is such a vigorous weed. And =
why the fertility of Prairie soil is immense.

Yt, DW

=20

----- Original Message -----=20

From: John and Nhung <mailto:nhungjohn@eastlink.ca> =20

To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca=20

Sent: Monday, February 08, 2016 12:06 PM

Subject: RE: [NatureNS] two trees to buy a pizza or would we rather a =
car with the same two trees?

=20

When I was a CUSO volunteer in Northeast Thailand, thirty-odd years ago, =
our country Director (a soil scientist by training) called trees =
=E2=80=9Cnutrient pumps.=E2=80=9D =20

=20

Made eminent sense in an a